Lightweight GOAT, just a 2 horse race?

[kara]

I think Whittaker has an argument, so does Joe Gans, and Armstrong

Y'all forget about Ike Williams destructive ass, too.

What about Mosley?

[The D3vil]

- - Tell us again about all the LH ABC title defenses PeaShooter racked up.

Ramirez, Paez, Azumah Nelson, Juan Nazario.

Sweet Pea racked up some defenses, brother

Gans and Armstrong agree with you? I suspect they never even heard of Wittaker.

On a serious note Ivch did mention Ike Williams above. It is hard to place him, too many claimed he was forced to tank fights, he claimed he was forced to tank fights, but I don't trust old fighters who claim they lost because of "pressure." Not that it didn't happen but because it is too common an excuse, especially among Black fighters.

The period between when Ross moved up to WW, and Ortiz and Laguna had not yet appeared I would argue Williams was the best out there.

Often it took a WW to beat him.

Dude, boxing used to be corrupt as fxck.

The mob scared the shxt out of White fighters like Jake Lamotta, so wat do you think they did to Black fighters in the 1930s & '40s?

AS corrupt as boxing is now, it's NOTHING compared to what it was back then when the mob had full control of the sport.

It's hard to overlook Beau Jack in this discussion. Solid wins at LW that include Armstrong, Montgomery, Williams, Zivic, Angott, Zurita, Davis, Jenkins, and Janiro. If we are ranking greatest lightweights by what they accomplished at 135, he ranks right up there in the top 5.

Cus D'Amato said Beau Jack was the best fighter he ever saw.

What about Mosley?

Nah, John John Molina & Jesse James Leija aint gonna get you on this list.

Shane did his biggest work at 147

[QueensburyRules]

Ramirez, Paez, Azumah Nelson, Juan Nazario.

Sweet Pea racked up some defenses, brother

- - He did, but he and Duva were badly exposed in his first title test, regrouped for a fine run, and then faded fast.

My LW rankings start:

1a Duran
1b Gans
1c The other Leonard somewhat forgotten by moderns.

The only argument is who fills in 4-10, so go for it!

[kara]

Ramirez, Paez, Azumah Nelson, Juan Nazario.

Sweet Pea racked up some defenses, brother



Dude, boxing used to be corrupt as fxck.

The mob scared the shxt out of White fighters like Jake Lamotta, so wat do you think they did to Black fighters in the 1930s & '40s?

AS corrupt as boxing is now, it's NOTHING compared to what it was back then when the mob had full control of the sport.



Cus D'Amato said Beau Jack was the best fighter he ever saw.



Nah, John John Molina & Jesse James Leija aint gonna get you on this list.

Shane did his biggest work at 147

Mosley also beat the GOAT - Phillip Holiday

[IronDanHamza]

Carlos Ortiz has a better resume than most fighters being listed, to be honest.

[mrbig1]

In my lifetime it's Duran and that's about it.

[The D3vil]

- - He did, but he and Duva were badly exposed in his first title test, regrouped for a fine run, and then faded fast.

My LW rankings start:

1a Duran
1b Gans
1c The other Leonard somewhat forgotten by moderns.

The only argument is who fills in 4-10, so go for it!

Badly exposed by who?

Ramirez?

That fight's considered one of the worst robberies of all-time.

[JAB5239]

Badly exposed by who?

Ramirez?

That fight's considered one of the worst robberies of all-time.

Get ready to hear a bunch of BS. Queenie saves his venom for Holmes, Fury and Whitaker more than any other fighters. He's been reduced to flat put making things up on many occasions he hates these guys so much.

I remember watching that fight live late on a Saturday afternoon watching Whitaker dominate Ramirez only to be robbed. Terrible TERRIBLE decision.

[Willie Pep 229]

Get ready to hear a bunch of BS. Queenie saves his venom for Holmes, Fury and Whitaker more than any other fighters. He's been reduced to flat put making things up on many occasions he hates these guys so much.

I remember watching that fight live late on a Saturday afternoon watching Whitaker dominate Ramirez only to be robbed. Terrible TERRIBLE decision.

So, is it fair to say Whitaker ducked Chavez at LW and waited five years and 10 pounds before he would risk fighting Chavez?

This is an excerpt from a Ring Magazine article.

You have to ask yourself, if Duva believed that Whitaker would get robbed by not signing to fight Chavez in a unification bout next, why didn't he take the deal.

Is it because he didn't want Whitaker to face Chavez at 135 in 1988/89?

THE EXCERPT

“Sulaiman is nothing but a goddarn thief,” yelled an incredulous Duva during a post-fight interview. “He gave these guys (the judges) orders. I appeared at the rules meeting and I predicted what was gonna happen; I said we were gonna get robbed.”

Duva’s allegations stemmed from the fact that Ramirez had already signed on to face countryman and WBA counterpart Julio Cesar Chavez in a unification bout. All he had to do was retain his WBC title and the all-Mexico superfight was on. Whitaker, on the other hand, had refused to commit to a Chavez bout despite the carrot being dangled in front of him.

You have to believe that Chavez was at his best at 135, in 89/89, not the WW match he finally got in 1993.

Why didn't Duva take the unification match with Chavez?

FULL ARTICLE HERE

https://www.ringtv.com/575141-sweet-...uis-ramirez-2/

[JAB5239]

So, is it fair to say Whitaker ducked Chavez at LW and waited five years and 10 pounds before he would risk fighting Chavez?

This is an excerpt from a Ring Magazine article.

You have to ask yourself, if Duva believed that Whitaker would get robbed by not signing to fight Chavez in a unification bout next, why didn't he take the deal.

Is it because he didn't want Whitaker to face Chavez at 135 in 1988/89?

THE EXCERPT

“Sulaiman is nothing but a goddarn thief,” yelled an incredulous Duva during a post-fight interview. “He gave these guys (the judges) orders. I appeared at the rules meeting and I predicted what was gonna happen; I said we were gonna get robbed.”

Duva’s allegations stemmed from the fact that Ramirez had already signed on to face countryman and WBA counterpart Julio Cesar Chavez in a unification bout. All he had to do was retain his WBC title and the all-Mexico superfight was on. Whitaker, on the other hand, had refused to commit to a Chavez bout despite the carrot being dangled in front of him.

You have to believe that Chavez was at his best at 135, in 89/89, not the WW match he finally got in 1993.

Why didn't Duva take the unification match with Chavez?

FULL ARTICLE HERE

https://www.ringtv.com/575141-sweet-...uis-ramirez-2/

The article also goes on to say "Whitaker-Ramirez 2 would not only have the IBF title at stake. Additionally, The Ring Magazine championship and the WBC title would be on the line because Chavez had recently moved north to dethrone WBC 140-pound titleholder Roger Mayweather." So Chavez had already gone to 140 while Whitaker had unfinished business against Ramirez. In 1990 JCC had the Taylor fight which many thought was fixed with Steele stopping the contest with two seconds left. I'm not one of those people by the way. But maybe Whitakers camp thought the same could happen to them. I wouldn't say it was a duck myself though. Whitaker was a 16 fight novice no matter how good he was. Chavez had a ton more experience with world class professional boxers at that point. Besides the unfinished business with Ramirez and The Chavez move to 140, I'd wager the Whitaker camp wanted him to get more experience before fighting such a seasoned assassin. Would you call that a duck?