Who had a Better Resume? Mike Tyson or Jack Dempsey?

[Willow The Wisp]

Tyson likewise never got an opportunity to fight Lewis perhaps because of prison. I would likewise probably (without thinking it through carefully) go with Tyson having the better resume... Whats better an old Holmes or Cowboy Lultz (the big ball headed young frankenstien looking guy Dempsey fought) kidding.

Ah, but Tyson DID get to fight Lennox, and he was crushed rather easily. Tyson was amazing, of course; but feasted on an aged Holmes and his late stage contemporaries in his first iteration, and failed against both of his main contemporaries in his second. Great resume, but with limits. A different talk would be to force rank Dempsey's 10 best victims vs. Tyson's 10. In this I see Dempsey with an edge, albeit a slight one.

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[Willie Pep 229]

Jack and Tex had 3 million gates together. So, why fight Wills?

Five (maybe) -- Carpentier; Firpo; Sharkey; Tunney twice.

Even though Tunney (II) was Champion it was Dempsey who filled Soilder Firleld.

[billeau2]

Ah, but Tyson DID get to fight Lennox, and he was crushed rather easily. Tyson was amazing, of course; but feasted on an aged Holmes and his late stage contemporaries in his first iteration, and failed against both of his main contemporaries in his second. Great resume, but with limits. A different talk would be to force rank Dempsey's 10 best victims vs. Tyson's 10. In this I see Dempsey with an edge, albeit a slight one.

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Tyson was so far gone... But you are correct. Im still vascillating between who has a better resume lol.

[Willie Pep 229]

Because that was the fight the public was clamoring for.

You are telling half the story and therefore only half the truth.

The whole truth: For every man who wanted that fight there was another man didn't.

The gate draw was all Dempsey, he fights ANYONE (in the northeast) the stadium fills. (And did that to record-breaking crowd multiple times.)

Finding someone for Dempsey to fight didn't need to be burdened by 'half the people wanting it and half the people not wanting it.' It was simply just an easier fight to promote if you leave out the Negro.

From Rickard's point of view Wills didn't bring anything to the negotiation that Rickard couldn't find elsewhere. But Wills did bring to the table a whole bunch of problems Rickard could avoid.

Be honest, Dempsey didn't need to fight Wills and Rickard didn't want him too.

Besides: The KKK was recuriting, with success, during this period, across New York State.

In the early 1920s (when the fight should have happened,) at one time or another, NY, NJ, and Boston all refused to provide a venue for a 'mixed fight.'

KKK in New York 1920s.

"It was the event of a decade. KKK leaflets were dropped by plane over Nyack. 10,000 came to see 1,000 Klan marchers, 15 babies in full Klan regalia baptized, and two 75-foot crosses burn in an open field. This Klonvocation, as it was called, wasn’t down south somewhere, but, remarkably, in Suffern N.Y."

"On August 9, 1925, a huge fiery cross was set afire as a warning to Mr. A. Marsilio on the train tracks opposite his “saloon” at the corner of Cedar Hill Ave. and Franklin St.. What the warning was, was left unsaid. . . . No [police] follow up was reported."

[JAB5239]

You are telling half the story and therefore only half the truth.

The whole truth: For every man who wanted that fight there was another man didn't.

The gate draw was all Dempsey, he fights ANYONE (in the northeast) the stadium fills. (And did that to record-breaking crowd multiple times.)

Finding someone for Dempsey to fight didn't need to be burdened by 'half the people wanting it and half the people not wanting it.' It was simply just an easier fight to promote if you leave out the Negro.

From Rickard's point of view Wills didn't bring anything to the negotiation that Rickard couldn't find elsewhere. But Wills did bring to the table a whole bunch of problems Rickard could avoid.

Be honest, Dempsey didn't need to fight Wills and Rickard didn't want him too.

Besides: The KKK was recuriting, with success, during this period, across New York State.

In the early 1920s (when the fight should have happened,) at one time or another, NY, NJ, and Boston all refused to provide a venue for a 'mixed fight.'

KKK in New York 1920s.

"It was the event of a decade. KKK leaflets were dropped by plane over Nyack. 10,000 came to see 1,000 Klan marchers, 15 babies in full Klan regalia baptized, and two 75-foot crosses burn in an open field. This Klonvocation, as it was called, wasn’t down south somewhere, but, remarkably, in Suffern N.Y."

"On August 9, 1925, a huge fiery cross was set afire as a warning to Mr. A. Marsilio on the train tracks opposite his “saloon” at the corner of Cedar Hill Ave. and Franklin St.. What the warning was, was left unsaid. . . . No [police] follow up was reported."

The fact is Wills was the highest rated contender for years, and the public most certainly wanted it as proved by newspaper accounts from the time. If Rickard or Dempsey didn't want a fight that would have brought huge revenue.....you can draw your own conclusions. I've already stated mine and don't need to get into it again, and neither do you. We aren't changing each other's minds, my friend.

[JAB5239]

Firpo, Sharkey, Brennan and Willard are the bulk of Dempseys rated heavyweight opponents. If we're talking in general you could say Jack has a better resume. I don't believe you can say he has a better heavyweight resume. Spinks alone trumps anyone on Dempseys ledger.

[billeau2]

Firpo, Sharkey, Brennan and Willard are the bulk of Dempseys rated heavyweight opponents. If we're talking in general you could say Jack has a better resume. I don't believe you can say he has a better heavyweight resume. Spinks alone trumps anyone on Dempseys ledger.

I feel like I am on that pirate ship ride being swayed, lifted in both directions. This is a tough one! That logic involving Spinks is a nice twist. I still cannot make up my mind... The guys Tyson beat from the 80's were good fighters the way a lot of Dempsey's guys were good fighters. Spinks is a huge deal maker here. If we look: Firpo, Sharkey Brennan and Willard Gibbons and Miske... Carpentier? ok: Versus james Tillis, Trevor berbick, Pinklton Thomas, Tony Tucker, Holmes and Spinks... But Tyson also beat Bruno, Seldon and Donovan and Golota... I have to give a very slight edge to Tyson, unless we start looking at losses as part of the equation. Then we have to figure the Tunney versus Holyfield situation which I give an edge to Dempsey.

[billeau2]

So... When we look at loses... And we compare a loss to Tunney, versus a loss to Holyfield... Does that figure in? or is a loss, a loss? To me, it seems that this decision is so close that we have to look at the losses to Tunney versus Holyfield.

[JAB5239]

I feel like I am on that pirate ship ride being swayed, lifted in both directions. This is a tough one! That logic involving Spinks is a nice twist. I still cannot make up my mind... The guys Tyson beat from the 80's were good fighters the way a lot of Dempsey's guys were good fighters. Spinks is a huge deal maker here. If we look: Firpo, Sharkey Brennan and Willard Gibbons and Miske... Carpentier? ok: Versus james Tillis, Trevor berbick, Pinklton Thomas, Tony Tucker, Holmes and Spinks... But Tyson also beat Bruno, Seldon and Donovan and Golota... I have to give a very slight edge to Tyson, unless we start looking at losses as part of the equation. Then we have to figure the Tunney versus Holyfield situation which I give an edge to Dempsey.

Or the Douglas vs Meehan situation?

[QueensburyRules]

I don't think that we collectively appreciate the changes in what society sees as right and wrong. We seem too vulnerable to the error of supplanting our contemporary experiences over how the world actually was. The 1920s were the peak years for the Klu Klu Klan, and many scholars point directly to Jack Johnson as being the chief cause for this. There was no radio, no television, no international world cup, no pro basketball or cricket. Nothing in Johnson's time to compete with....Johnson! His fame (love him or hate him) was unprecedented. By Dempsey's time the wounds to the "Master race" remained wide opened, with being forced by a beating, and for the first time since ancient times to Accept that an African was the supreme physical human on earth, by the supreme test of all the greatest civilizations. Dempsey vs. Wills would be a calamity of massive proportions. You can't even imagine. This had nothing to do with the promoters, much less the fighters. Completely out of their control.

- - Yes, them's the times, but no law against mixed race exhibitions since Wills was already fighting white fighters.

Yeah, just a fantasy after Jack married a movie star and moved to Hollywood for his $$$. But he took Big Bill Tate for training just in case Wills panned out that never happened.

Tough times to be a fighter then, and now promoter squabbles keep a lot of good fights from happening.