Who had a Better Resume? Mike Tyson or Jack Dempsey?

[Willow The Wisp]

I always attempt to read a thread all the way through before I respond, to determine A) If the content and concept are my cup of tea, and B) To see if any opinions might benefit from rebuttal. Cus certainly used Dempsey for a model which he felt suited a young Tyson's physical and behavioral characteristics, and the rest is history.
To markusmod; bless your heart.
To QueensburyRules; It would require another heretical schism to allow WIP Anthony Joshua into the same sentence with Tyson, Louis, Ali and Vlad, and you know it. If you don't know it, then bless your heart as well.
To my buddy Jabs; remember that multiple titles today are as much an advantage to Dempsey, who only had to win one fight in Toledo to snap up all the "belts" (world recognition). The more championship belts there are, the less meaning each one has.
Also, weight is a moving target when crossing between eras when we talk heavyweights, so we can't put too much focus, at least IMO on Tyson's heavier roster of contenders. Big or small, Dempsey fought em' all, in what his era could provide.
Dr. Z....I love ya more than my folks, but every now and then you really shake me up with one of those proclamations of yours. I raised a family though, so I can take it. Dempsey's career traversed through 2 distinct eras and into a 3rd. All three of them were excellent eras for heavyweights.
Ghosts; Why would Dempsey be a MMA fighter if around today? The sport requires training in the famed Winklejohn "4 legged table" of Western boxing, Muay Thai, Freestyle Wrestling and Sub Grappling/BJJ to best prepare for what the rules allow, and sure, Dempsey like many fighters up to the end of the 1st world war worked out with grapplers and he knew a bit, but MMA simply doesn't pay enough to attact anyone with the ability to really excell in boxing. Not even close. Ask Francis Ngannou what he'd prefer to be doing.
The size thing notwithstanding, and pitching the idea that Jess Willard and Fred Fulton were the same size and build as Vitali and every bit as good (Again, IMO, which needn't really be said), my resume pick is Jack Dempsey by a hair or two, who; even in his difficulties overcoming Willie Meehan, never ever did what Iron Mike did at the end against the modest likes of Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Nor would he ever. (Resume speaks to the whole enchilada, the good, the bad and the ugly). And that's just for starters.
Want more? Just ask. Love those teens n' 20s fighters.
Both great resumes, needless to say!

[Willie Pep 229]

Without Wills who was the beat available contender for years, or Greb who in turn beat most of Dempsey's choices to fight before Dempsey fought them, Jack's resume suffers considerably.

That's not how resumes are evaluated. You evaluate what the fighter did not what you think he should have done.

But as always with this same topic we will agree to disagree.

[billeau2]

So a few points:

I wanted to highlight Dempsey because Tyson used a lot of techniques from Jack. I also would consider Dempsey's resume average for a great heavyweight, tending a little to the 'above average' side of the curve, so it gives a good chance to look at the claim about Tyson having a below average resume for a heavyweight. basically we have similar style, similar approach, different times. A good comparable to me.

One way to look at both men is comparing the Tunney fights to the Holyfield fights. Jack was thought to be past his best, and so was Tyson. Furthermore, both Tunney and Holyfield came up to establish themselves successfully as light heavies to heavy. Both men were thought to be in over their heads. Of course both Tunney and Holyfield won both of their fights.

[billeau2]

A lot more names on the resume of Tunney in comparison to Tyson's.

Yes. But not so for jack Dempsey.

[billeau2]

Without Wills who was the beat available contender for years, or Greb who in turn beat most of Dempsey's choices to fight before Dempsey fought them, Jack's resume suffers considerably.

Tyson likewise never got an opportunity to fight Lewis perhaps because of prison. I would likewise probably (without thinking it through carefully) go with Tyson having the better resume... Whats better an old Holmes or Cowboy Lultz (the big ball headed young frankenstien looking guy Dempsey fought) kidding.

[markusmod]

Yes. But not so for jack Dempsey.

I meant Dempsey...

[QueensburyRules]

I too have to go with Tyson. Tex Rickard once said that he could make the fight with Wills because he didn't want a second Johnson Jefferies fight. I don't know if I believe him, but that fight was only was only 10 - 12 years earlier.

- - There were at least a half dozen iterations of the fight over a 3 year period involving political killings of the fight initially that involved financial killings of the fight later that the political killings exacerbated.

Had I been a promoter then, I'd have Harry and Jack do a promotional over the top comedy exhibition tour to warm up the people and politicians to the fact that black and white and every other kind of races and nationalities have been gloving up together since the dawn of boxing unlike pro ball leagues history. They could've made a little lunch money while feting We The People who would be interested in this type of fight.

Film Rights alone worth a fortune, and more importantly, both in their primes as opposed when the fight finally looked like it could be made, both has slipped out of prime.

[mrbig1]

Jack and Tex had 3 million gates together. So, why fight Wills?

[JAB5239]

Jack and Tex had 3 million gates together. So, why fight Wills?

Because he was the best available contender. Because that was the fight the public was clamoring for.

[Willow The Wisp]

- - There were at least a half dozen iterations of the fight over a 3 year period involving political killings of the fight initially that involved financial killings of the fight later that the political killings exacerbated.

Had I been a promoter then, I'd have Harry and Jack do a promotional over the top comedy exhibition tour to warm up the people and politicians to the fact that black and white and every other kind of races and nationalities have been gloving up together since the dawn of boxing unlike pro ball leagues history. They could've made a little lunch money while feting We The People who would be interested in this type of fight.

Film Rights alone worth a fortune, and more importantly, both in their primes as opposed when the fight finally looked like it could be made, both has slipped out of prime.

I don't think that we collectively appreciate the changes in what society sees as right and wrong. We seem too vulnerable to the error of supplanting our contemporary experiences over how the world actually was. The 1920s were the peak years for the Klu Klu Klan, and many scholars point directly to Jack Johnson as being the chief cause for this. There was no radio, no television, no international world cup, no pro basketball or cricket. Nothing in Johnson's time to compete with....Johnson! His fame (love him or hate him) was unprecedented. By Dempsey's time the wounds to the "Master race" remained wide opened, with being forced by a beating, and for the first time since ancient times to Accept that an African was the supreme physical human on earth, by the supreme test of all the greatest civilizations. Dempsey vs. Wills would be a calamity of massive proportions. You can't even imagine. This had nothing to do with the promoters, much less the fighters. Completely out of their control.