Langford vs Greb

[JAB5239]

Tunney said he was dirty and other did too. Even in his own time some old timers refused to rank Greb because he was an something of an all timer who mixed in things we all call fouls today along with being " that good "





Tunney and several boxing people say Greb smashed his into Tunney face during one of kangaroo moments in round one. I can't prove he did or did not, there is no film of this fight or any to Greb's fights for that matter.

https://quotepark.com/authors/harry-greb/

Greb mentions he would hit a man on the under side of his foot if he only would lift it. The man was a very fast fouler who mixed in remarkable boxing during his the fouls.

I don't see any quotes that say Harry was a dirty fighter. I have provided fighter quotes that do indeed say he was not. The dirty fighter reputation was given through the book "Give him to the angels " which was pulled because of its many exaggerations. I'll take the words of the fighters themselves that actually shared the ring with him.

[Willie Pep 229]

I believe the below quote from the article by D. Cavanaught is incorrect. But maybe I am wrong.

"That Labor Day card was the first of many successful big events engineered by the team of Dempsey, his manager Jack Kearns, and genius promoter Tex Rickard."

I THINK The Billy Miske fight was promoted by Floyd Fitzsimmons (not Rickard) at Floyd Fitzsimmons Arena in Benton Harbor, Michigan.

Rickard was not involved. (Fitz was a personal friend of Dempsey's; after the Miske fight Dempsey bought Fitz's wife a 15K Car, I have no clue why except friendship or maybe a kick-back, [that's in a 1920 economy when the Model T's were selling for $850]).

Also I have read but can't prove off the top of my head that both Miske and Dempsey already knew that Billy was ill and that Dempsey gave him the title shot just to give Miske, who was also a friend one last big payday.

The fight was scheduled for only ten rounds with no judges. Miske had to win by KO to claim the title.

About Dempsey's frienship with Billy Miske.

If one looks at Dempsey's run up to the title you see two odd fights mixed in, the first two Miske fights. Dempsey, starting in January of 1918, with Homer Smith, has 19 stoppages (a real Tyson-like run up to the title) --> Miske is the only fighter to go the distance with Dempsey (6 and 10 rounds) --> some thought Dempsey was taking it easy on his friend. KOing all the rest.*

In the title fight, (third fight) knowing Miske was ill, Dempsey looked to take Miske out early so as not to beat on his ill friend (3 rounds). So say some.

Also it was Fitzsimmons who put Langford and Greb on the undercard, not Rickard. Fitz was the one (in 1921) that was trying to make the Dempsey-Greb match (not Rickard) but Dempsey/Kearns decided to go with Rickard who was offering Dempsey a 300K guarantee for Carpentier. A guarantee Fitzsimmons couldn't match for a fight with Greb. --> Fitz only got Dempsey 110K for the Miske fight.

* During this period there is also a draw and loss (4 rounds) to Willie Mehan. But trying to understand Dempsey-Mehan is an enigma.

[QueensburyRules]

In 1916, 1917, and 1918 Langford was still fighting at an elite level. This is the same time Greb was at the top of his game. Not uncommon for two men at a crossroads to meet in the ring. And as I said they fought .usual opponents which would have made a fight viable since Harry never drew the color line.

- - Yes, they could've fought but didn't, nor was any attempt made for them to fight near as I can tell and truth be told, never seen anyone lose any sleep or hair over their noncombatant status.

I matched the best of them because the best of them would've fought each other on the same timeline.

[JAB5239]

- - Yes, they could've fought but didn't, nor was any attempt made for them to fight near as I can tell and truth be told, never seen anyone lose any sleep or hair over their noncombatant status.

I matched the best of them because the best of them would've fought each other on the same timeline.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I'm just curious why there was no call for this fight, in your opinion and the opinion of others of course. As said it was a viable fight and one you would think would have been discussed given both fighters willingness to fight anyone.

[markusmod]

That painting of Greb is outstanding! Good article.

May need a bigger version to hang on the wall

[Dr. Z]

I don't see any quotes that say Harry was a dirty fighter. I have provided fighter quotes that do indeed say he was not. The dirty fighter reputation was given through the book "Give him to the angels " which was pulled because of its many exaggerations. I'll take the words of the fighters themselves that actually shared the ring with him.

I provided Tunney. It not that Greb was dirty, by singularly fouling his man, rather he mixed in fouls as part of his offense. No low blows, rather throwing punches everywhere including some that were illegal by our standard of modern boxing. And by jumping in and out when he wanted to it invites a clash of heads with Greb being the shorter and hard headed man.

I'll look for the Greb quote himself where he goes so far to say he'll do everything but kick his opponent. I'm not a Greb specialist historian. There are few. And there is no film on the man, for who reason I do not know why. He defiantly was filmed a few times

But we live in a time when detailed information on Greb from firsthand sources is readily available to all who seek it. Many opponents stated for the record that Greb was more rough than dirty, and a closer look at his career reveals that not only was Harry not one of the top five dirty fighters of all-time, but he may not have even been one of the top five dirty fighters of his time.

[Ivich]

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I'm just curious why there was no call for this fight, in your opinion and the opinion of others of course. As said it was a viable fight and one you would think would have been discussed given both fighters willingness to fight anyone.

Here is DEFIANT post on subject.


"I provided Tunney. It not that Greb was dirty, by singularly fouling his man, rather he mixed in fouls as part of his offense. No low blows, rather throwing punches everywhere including some that were illegal by our standard of modern boxing. And by jumping in and out when he wanted to it invites a clash of heads with Greb being the shorter and hard headed man.

I'll look for the Greb quote himself where he goes so far to say he'll do everything but kick his opponent. I'm not a Greb specialist historian. There are few. And there is no film on the man, for who reason I do not know why. He defiantly was filmed a few times."
Dr Zero.

This just has to be a wind up!

[GhostofDempsey]

One has to consider how this fight would be fought. Greb would not want this to be an inside fight. He would be moving a lot on his feet trying to eek out a points win throwing a high volume of punches and avoiding Langford's clinch. Sam would look to close the distance, cut off the ring and get in close to Harry. Much the way he did with Tiger Flowers. Greb and Flowers fought 3x, Flowers winning two of those contests. All 3 fights were shrouded in controversy over the outcomes. Regardless, they fought each other very closely. A little over a year prior to their first contest, Langford knocked out Flowers in two rounds. He took a lot of punches from Flowers in those two rounds, but figured him out quickly and ended it with a short right to the jaw.

Greb had a better chin than Flowers, and catching him may have been a bit more difficult, but I believe Langford would close the distance. Greb wasn't known as a power puncher, and Langford walked right through Flowers punches once he knew he couldn't hurt him. Langford also had much more experience than Flowers, who only had about 35 fights at the time they fought. I think Langford wins by late KO or decision. However, this fight has to happen around 1918.

[Willie Pep 229]

One has to consider how this fight would be fought. Greb would not want this to be an inside fight. He would be moving a lot on his feet trying to eek out a points win throwing a high volume of punches and avoiding Langford's clinch. Sam would look to close the distance, cut off the ring and get in close to Harry. Much the way he did with Tiger Flowers. Greb and Flowers fought 3x, Flowers winning two of those contests. All 3 fights were shrouded in controversy over the outcomes. Regardless, they fought each other very closely. A little over a year prior to their first contest, Langford knocked out Flowers in two rounds. He took a lot of punches from Flowers in those two rounds, but figured him out quickly and ended it with a short right to the jaw.

Greb had a better chin than Flowers, and catching him may have been a bit more difficult, but I believe Langford would close the distance. Greb wasn't known as a power puncher, and Langford walked right through Flowers punches once he knew he couldn't hurt him. Langford also had much more experience than Flowers, who only had about 35 fights at the time they fought. I think Langford wins by late KO or decision. However, this fight has to happen around 1918.

1918 is true for Langford but kind of unfair for Greb who was probably at his best in '22. Four years in boxing can make a world of difference and here I believe is a good example of that.

[The Old LefHook]

Langford is not falling for it. Greb does not have the punch to keep him off. Greb was a swarmer. I never have great faith in swarmers with mediocre punching power.