Langford vs Greb

[Dr. Z]

You've provided two hitting on the break and a clash of heads that was most likely accidental as he was not penalized or warned according to the NY paper from Tunneys hometown. You're reaching to paint a picture that Tunney himself refuted. No one is saying Greb was an angel. But if you're going to call him an intentionally dirty fighter for theses infractions that happen in so many other fights, you might as well call every fighter who ever lived dirty. Boxing is a rough sport. These things happen very often. But as the article I already provided states, and backs up, he probably wasn't even a top 5 dirtiest fighter in his time. Again, no one is saying Greb never fouled. No one is saying he never didn't anything illegal Intentionally. But most fighters didn't see him as intentionally dirty.

This article desrbies Greb's style, and dirty fighting. Mind you I'm not a Greb expert.



A rough, anything-goes
fighter, Greb reached his
peak in the roaring 'twenties.
when prize-fighters,
gingsters, Jazz, flappers,
and bath-tub gin dominated
the scene.



To clinch his claims, he
met and disposed of the
highly - rated Gunboat
Smith and Tommy Gibbons.
For the benefit of the
first he initiated the eyegouging
tactics for. which
he was to become notorious.
With his thumb overlapping
his glove, he hit
Smith with a solid right to
the face. The thumb sank
into Smith's left eye, paralysing
the optic nerve,
~ Smith slipped to the
canvas ... in agony „ and was! —.
counted out, while the
elated Greb, confident he
had found a match-winning
tactic danced a victory-
jig in his corner.


Then he brought up his
head with a sickening thud
and broke Tunney's nose.
The following round he
repeated the maneuver,
and "opened a gash like a
second mouth over Tunney's left eye."

mauling
All the
slapping,
while he
heeling,, ^.m
and
hitting
artistically
in the breakaways,
using his
thumbs and knees. At the end of 15 rounds he, was
acclaimed easy winner.



In 1925 Harry Greb, who
had eventually won the
world middle-weight title
from Johnny Wilson, met
a wild negro, Kid Norfolk,
in a bout that 'was to
bring retribution for all
his shameless fouls.
) Greb was not - worried
about the result. "If the
going gets tough," he said,
• "I'll stick my thumb in
his eye.


And got Walker's measure
"and began to fight like
a well-oiled: machine.
He grabbed the young
man in a clinch, contrived
to spin him around till he
was treding, then stepped
back and hit him as he
spun.

Like I said Greb being a fouler is noting new. Have you changed opinions yet? I don't write these articles. Knees , head use, elbows, spin a man around and hitting him, hitting on the break and thumbing in the eye. I will look for the Tunney quote. I will look for the Greb quote.



https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...boxing%20fouls

[JAB5239]

This article desrbies Greb's style, and dirty fighting. Mind you I'm not a Greb expert.



A rough, anything-goes
fighter, Greb reached his
peak in the roaring 'twenties.
when prize-fighters,
gingsters, Jazz, flappers,
and bath-tub gin dominated
the scene.



To clinch his claims, he
met and disposed of the
highly - rated Gunboat
Smith and Tommy Gibbons.
For the benefit of the
first he initiated the eyegouging
tactics for. which
he was to become notorious.
With his thumb overlapping
his glove, he hit
Smith with a solid right to
the face. The thumb sank
into Smith's left eye, paralysing
the optic nerve,
~ Smith slipped to the
canvas ... in agony „ and was! —.
counted out, while the
elated Greb, confident he
had found a match-winning
tactic danced a victory-
jig in his corner.


Then he brought up his
head with a sickening thud
and broke Tunney's nose.
The following round he
repeated the maneuver,
and "opened a gash like a
second mouth over Tunney's left eye."

mauling
All the
slapping,
while he
heeling,, ^.m
and
hitting
artistically
in the breakaways,
using his
thumbs and knees. At the end of 15 rounds he, was
acclaimed easy winner.



In 1925 Harry Greb, who
had eventually won the
world middle-weight title
from Johnny Wilson, met
a wild negro, Kid Norfolk,
in a bout that 'was to
bring retribution for all
his shameless fouls.
) Greb was not - worried
about the result. "If the
going gets tough," he said,
• "I'll stick my thumb in
his eye.


And got Walker's measure
"and began to fight like
a well-oiled: machine.
He grabbed the young
man in a clinch, contrived
to spin him around till he
was treding, then stepped
back and hit him as he
spun.

Like I said Greb being a fouler is noting new. Have you changed opinions yet? I don't write these articles. Knees , head use, elbows, spin a man around and hitting him, hitting on the break and thumbing in the eye. I will look for the Tunney quote. I will look for the Greb quote.



https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...boxing%20fouls

You think I should change my opinion because you posted an article with no quotes from his opponents? Did you even read the article or just gloss over looking to make your point? In the article it says Tunney was warned for hitting low. That makes him a dirty fighter, right? And you never answered if Wlad was also a dirty fighter for his tactics used fight after fight.

I e made myself very clear on this......Greb was a rough guy. A tough guy. He sometimes commicommitted. Some accidently, others im sure not. But he wasnt an intentional dirty fighter per say. I can find evidence every fighter in history was a dirty fighter going by the exaggerations you are willing to believe. Ill stick with the word of men who shared the ring with him.

[JAB5239]

Oh, and spinning or turning a fighter is nothing new nor illegal in boxing. It's actually one of the first things I remember being taught when I started boxing.

[QueensburyRules]

Oh, and spinning or turning a fighter is nothing new nor illegal in boxing. It's actually one of the first things I remember being taught when I started boxing.

- - Hector Camacho was warned repeatedly in his early days for doing that, but perhaps instead actually being warned against slapping the offended opponent in his fanny.

He'd also just spring behind them for a slap, and when they turned around, he was back in his original front position ready to pop them when they turned back.

Humiliation by unrivaled showboating making Pea look like a peashooter.

U moan about Greb and Sam not fighting, but Pea was definitely guided away from the much faster, quicker Camacho who had vastly better results vs Jose Luis Ramirez the Champion than did Pea who took a beating their first fight.

[JAB5239]

- - Hector Camacho was warned repeatedly in his early days for doing that, but perhaps instead actually being warned against slapping the offended opponent in his fanny.

He'd also just spring behind them for a slap, and when they turned around, he was back in his original front position ready to pop them when they turned back.

Humiliation by unrivaled showboating making Pea look like a peashooter.

U moan about Greb and Sam not fighting, but Pea was definitely guided away from the much faster, quicker Camacho who had vastly better results vs Jose Luis Ramirez the Champion than did Pea who took a beating their first fight.

I'm not moaning about the fight not being made. Was just curious about opinions on why it didn't happen. To bad, would have been a helluva fight between the two best p4p fighters in history.

[Dr. Z]

You think I should change my opinion because you posted an article with no quotes from his opponents? Did you even read the article or just gloss over looking to make your point? In the article it says Tunney was warned for hitting low. That makes him a dirty fighter, right? And you never answered if Wlad was also a dirty fighter for his tactics used fight after fight.

I e made myself very clear on this......Greb was a rough guy. A tough guy. He sometimes commicommitted. Some accidently, others im sure not. But he wasnt an intentional dirty fighter per say. I can find evidence every fighter in history was a dirty fighter going by the exaggerations you are willing to believe. Ill stick with the word of men who shared the ring with him.

No I think you should change you opinion because the hall of fame says so, and using your head, elbows, hitting on brakes and sticking your thumb in someone's eye are all acts of dirty of fighter. Who does this in his most famous matches? Notice any pattern here? And this is just a small sample mind you.

Wlad is a very clean fighter. Clinching happens in boxing and he lost point because of it one time, and it's the only docked point he has ever lost. This does not make him a dirty fighter. Why mentionhim, he's not in this thread.

[JAB5239]

No I think you should change you opinion because the hall of fame says so, and being your head, elbows, hitting on brakes and sticking your thumb in someone's eye are all acts of dirty of a dirty fighter, Who does this in his most famous matches? Notice any pattern here? And this is just a small sample mind you.

Wlad is a very clean fighter. Clinching happens in boxing and he lost point because of it one time, and it's the only docked point he has ever lost. This does not make him a dirty fighter. Why mentionhim, he's not in this thread.

The IBHO was created in 1990. As said, I'll take the words of the guys who were in the ring with him.

Greb was only disqualified once, and that was controversial. If he was that dirty wouldn't he have been disqualified more often?

Why not mention Wlad. Dirty is dirty to you, there is no in-between. Wlad was a dirty fighter not only for the clinching (that just made him boring) but for draping himself over smaller opponents in the clinch to wear them down. Excessive holding is illegal. Are you saying he wasn't guilty of this? And if he was he must be a dirty fighter.

[Dr. Z]

The IBHO was created in 1990. As said, I'll take the words of the guys who were in the ring with him.

Greb was only disqualified once, and that was controversial. If he was that dirty wouldn't he have been disqualified more often?

Why not mention Wlad. Dirty is dirty to you, there is no in-between. Wlad was a dirty fighter not only for the clinching (that just made him boring) but for draping himself over smaller opponents in the clinch to wear them down. Excessive holding is illegal. Are you saying he wasn't guilty of this? And if he was he must be a dirty fighter.

You skip my points. Fighters are seldom DQ'd! How may time was Zivic DQ in over 200 fights? See my point. He was dirty too, wasn't he? You are using the talking points of another man as as another said he is well read but...

Wlad is not a dirty fighter an to suggest he was is just a lame attempt at anger with me. I showed you boxing sources ( several ) that Greb was dirty in just a hand full or fights. Just imagine if I had access to lots of them, what would I find then?

Find something else to talk about. You have you mind made up, and aren't listening to facts. I can't add anything know to make you think otherwise can I? Name what you are looking for and don't say something like film because no one I know has it.

[JAB5239]

You skip my points. Fighters are seldom DQ'd! How may time was Zivic DQ in over 200 fights? See my point. He was dirty too, wasn't he? You are using the talking points of another man as as another said he is well read but...

Wlad is not a dirty fighter an to suggest he was is just a lame attempt at anger with me. I showed you boxing sources ( several ) that Greb was dirty in just a hand full or fights. Just imagine if I had access to lots of them, what would I find then?

Find something else to talk about. You have you mind made up, and aren't listening to facts. I can't add anything know to make you think otherwise can I? Name what you are looking for and don't say something like film because no one I know has it.

I have provided fighter testimonial saying Greb wasn't dirty, so what's you point. There are degrees to being a dirty fighter. According to men who shared the ring with him he wasn't intentionally dirty. When he was it was because he was done dirty first. You seem to have an overwhelming need for this to be an absolute. Thing is, it won't be without film.

Why would me calling Wlad dirty anger you? As far as I'm concerned he was a dirty fighter. I mean as long as you don't see a gray area than why should I? He held and leaned on opponents excessively in nearly every fight after the first Brewster fight. This is a fact. You can't have your cake and eat it to. Going by your logic Wlad was a dirty fighter. You have no room for different degrees or levels of being dirty.

Greb was no Saint. But you show nothing that trumps what the men who shared the ring with him had to say. Personally I don't care if he was dirty or not. The man was great. Ask any historian. Even the IBHOF says so!!

[DIRTYREDMASON]

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