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Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?

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  • Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?


    Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?


    There are two ways to rate people, head-to-head matchups vs the field of ring accomplishments.

    For the purpose of this article, let's focus on ring accomplishments and use Ring Magazine, " the bible of boxing " as the standard for ranking them. You may think the heavyweights ranked contenders of modern times would wipe the ring canvas with the heavyweights ranked contenders of the 1920's, 1930's, 1940's, and 1950's as they are much bigger. Like three weight classes bigger and have more defined traditional skills than history's previous giants. Or maybe you feel that the contenders 60-100 years ago were better despite glaring differences in height, weight, and reach and sometimes records of the contenders themselves. Whichever you believe, we can use ring magazine ratings and records achieved as a benchmark for history regardless of which side of the argument you are on

    Let's proceed using the standard of Ring Magazine heavyweight champions! Fighters such as Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, V. Klitschko and W Kiltscho. All accomplished heavy weights. These 12 men are who I will use for the study and should be on most top 10 heavyweights list.


    Quality of opposition fought. Based on my findings, Vitali was 8-2 against opponents ranked by Ring magazine when he fought them.

    The list does not include former champions ( Wba, Wbo, Lineal, Ibf or Wbc) such as Herrie Hide or Shannon Brigs or former contenders, only Ring Magazine contenders who were ranked when Vitali fought them.

    Unfortunately, Vitali could not have fought his brother, who often occupied the spot of Champion or the number 1 or 2 contender.


    1999 RTD by 9 Chris Byrd (#10 at Heavyweight) * shoulder injury, Later Byrd would be the Home ranked contender. Vitali was way up on all three cards

    2003 - TKO by 6 Lennox Lewis (Champion at Heavyweight) * cuts. Again Vitali was leading on all three cards.

    2004 - TKO8 Corrie Sanders (#3 at Heavyweight)

    2004 TKO8 Danny Williams (#9 at Heavyweight)

    2008 - RTD8 Sam Peter (#2 at Heavyweight)

    2009 - TKO9 Juan Carlos Gomez (#9 at Heavyweight)

    2009 - RTD10 Chris Arreola (#6 at Heavyweight)

    2009 - UD12 Kevin Johnson (#10 at Heavyweight)

    2011 - KO1 Odlanier Solis ( Number nine at Heavyweight)

    2011 - TKO10 Tomasz Adamek (#2 at Heavyweight)


    Here Vitali is 8-2 or 80% winning record. Vitali has a better winning percentage among ring magazine champions than Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Frazier, Ali, Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis. Only Marciano and Holmes have a better winning percentage. Louis, Foreman, Ali, Lewis, Wlad, and Tyson have more total wins over ranked contenders. I would need to check their records on ring magazine's top contenders for the percentage of opponents beaten. The point is Vitali rates in the top ten here among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, and W. Klitschko


    Best rounds won to rounds lost ratio: Not only in the history of heavyweights but among all boxing champions. He was towering above Ali or Holmes on the scorecards, who, infact lost more rounds to lesser men. Vitali combined boxing ability, power, size, good footwork, smarts, defense, counterpunching, and ring generalship to the maximum by engaging his opponents and forcing them to fight on his terms. Vitali never trailed on any scorecard after three rounds and never lost more than three consensus rounds in any fight. This includes fights where he was injured ( Byrd and Chisora ). Very impressive. Rates number one overall among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Forman, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, W Klitschko.


    Never floored by a punch. Ever. Vitali and Oliver Mcall are the only two in the history of the lineal champions never to be floored by a punch, and Vitali fought plenty of punchers who landed hard to test his chin/durability such as Lewis, Hide, and Sanders. 47 pro fights. Rates Home overall among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Foreman, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, W. Klitschko. In fact this accomplishment rates very highly in all of boxing history


    One of the best knock artists of all time, with 87.23% KO ratio. It went down a little with age, and so would any champions. Better than Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Forman, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, W Klitschko. This rates number two of all time among legendary champions.


    Other feats:


    One of the most active heavyweights on the punch stats, compared to Marciano or Frazier's activity level. Punch stats are not historical records, but this is impressive nonetheless. In boxing the guy who outlands the other wins at least 80% of the time. Often the punch stats are better than some of the official judges, and he be used sniff out bad judging.


    **So far, we are talking about a guy who was incredibly difficult to outbox, was never floored that had had the power and stamina to stop anyone early or late, who stood 6'7" 1/2 tall, weighed 245-250 pounds in shape, an 80" reach**

    An all time come back. Which boxer came back four years out of the ring, and no warm up fights not only to take his title back, but to win nine title defenses in a row at age 37-41. The answer is zero. Foreman came back to be Ring Magazine champion over 40, that's it.

    Total Title Defenses.


    1. Joe Louis 27 title wins NYSAC, NBA


    2. Muhammad Ali 23 title wins NYSAC, WBA, WBC


    3. Wladimir Klitschko 23 title wins WBA, IBF, WBO


    4. Larry Holmes 20 title wins WBC, IBF


    5A Lennox Lewis 15 title wins WBA, WBC, IBF


    5.B Vitali Klitschko 15 title wins WBC, WBC


    That's it. Everyone else is lower.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavyweight


    Made the hall of fame in his first year of eligibility and was the leading vote receiver in his class. A very rare honor.


    Using the above benchmarks and history and accomplishments, Vitali Klitschko is one of the top 10 all-time heavyweight champions. Since there is a lot of data here, I reserve the right to edit it, but I ask for proof of any errors found. You will get credit if you find one. Thanks to Mr. Cillf Rold's article, which I used as for part of the data, and Wikipedia. The all time head to rankings would be a different read, but in this man's opinion, Vitali would rate highly there as well.

    - Dr. Z
    Last edited by Dr. Z; 10-27-2022, 07:34 AM.

  • #2
    Lost to both Byrd and Lewis. Never sought the Byrd rematch.

    Sanders - had one top 10 win his entire career.

    Williams - had one top 10 win his entire career against a Tyson who was washed up and only had name recognition left.

    Peter - godd win, probably Vits best win.

    Gomez - never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

    Arreola- never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

    Johnson - never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

    Solis - was not a too 10 fighter and never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.


    Adamek - had 2 top 10 wins. One over Arreolla who had no top 10 wins and one against Eddie Chambers who boasted two top 10 wins.

    I'm sorry but this is not impressive to me, and when you com B ine it with the 28 other Ring top 10 contenders he didn't fight he is a far cry from the top 10.
    Ivich Ivich likes this.

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    • #3
      Well everyone but Rocky Marciano losses and he retired at age 32. The post is focused on what Vitali did accomplish and comparing others through the lens of history with accomplished similar feats or records. That's what I am talking about and will talk about in this thread.

      Anyones competition can be nit picked on. I am talking about what happed, not someone who backed out of a WBC re-match or a fighter who singed with a promoter interested only his signed guys going to round robin with either for the IBF belt.

      Boxing is an individual contract sport and does not enforce anyone to fight who we want them to. It also does not have a playoff system. The best seldom meet the best and when they do it is rare that both guys are in their prime.

      But on some nights I think it boxing is best sport in the world!
      Last edited by Dr. Z; 10-27-2022, 08:28 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
        Lost to both Byrd and Lewis. Never sought the Byrd rematch.

        Sanders - had one top 10 win his entire career.

        Williams - had one top 10 win his entire career against a Tyson who was washed up and only had name recognition left.

        Peter - godd win, probably Vits best win.

        Gomez - never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

        Arreola- never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

        Johnson - never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

        Solis - was not a too 10 fighter and never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.


        Adamek - had 2 top 10 wins. One over Arreolla who had no top 10 wins and one against Eddie Chambers who boasted two top 10 wins.

        I'm sorry but this is not impressive to me, and when you com B ine it with the 28 other Ring top 10 contenders he didn't fight he is a far cry from the top 10.
        - - Y U no say which top 10s

        Must be 2 dozen published top 10s.

        U playing another busted flush again, and again, and again until infinity rolls over...Ya Basta!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post

          - - Y U no say which top 10s

          Must be 2 dozen published top 10s.

          U playing another busted flush again, and again, and again until infinity rolls over...Ya Basta!!!
          How about trying the one specified in the opening post, moron.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
            Lost to both Byrd and Lewis. Never sought the Byrd rematch.

            Sanders - had one top 10 win his entire career.

            Williams - had one top 10 win his entire career against a Tyson who was washed up and only had name recognition left.

            Peter - godd win, probably Vits best win.

            Gomez - never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

            Arreola- never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

            Johnson - never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.

            Solis - was not a too 10 fighter and never beat a top 10 fighter before or after Vits.


            Adamek - had 2 top 10 wins. One over Arreolla who had no top 10 wins and one against Eddie Chambers who boasted two top 10 wins.

            I'm sorry but this is not impressive to me, and when you com B ine it with the 28 other Ring top 10 contenders he didn't fight he is a far cry from the top 10.
            His record against the top men of his time doesn't warrant him being anywhere near a top ten imo.
            That is not to say he would not be a problem for any heavyweight.
            JAB5239 JAB5239 likes this.

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            • #7
              Absolutely not.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ivich View Post
                His record against the top men of his time doesn't warrant him being anywhere near a top ten imo.
                That is not to say he would not be a problem for any heavyweight.
                Exactly. Greatness is bestowed on great accomplishments. Great accomplishments come against the best. I whole heartedly think he would be a terror in any era. But a top 10 great? Not even close.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Fighters such as Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, and W Kiltsckho..

                  What is record vs top men? Legends.


                  Dempsey sort of has none right? Sharkey is a top win with Dempsey low blow and left hook combo.

                  Louis should be 4-5 vs the top men he fought in Schemling, Conn, Walcott , Marciano and Charles. But he is 5-4 and can thank his lucky stars the Conn match was only 12 rounds and there was no s 10 point must system for the Walcott fight.

                  Liston but 2-2 in his biggest matches.

                  Frazier is but 1-4

                  Tyson did not win any big fights, he lost them badly.

                  Holyfield beat Tyson, but is 1-3-1 in his other biggest fights.

                  Point being even the legends are easy to nit pick at, which was your goal. Vitali's losses we not because of ring ability. They were due to a shoulder injury and cuts. Ali himself once lost an amateur match on cuts. Point being injuries and cuts happen can happen to anyone in boxing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post
                    Fighters such as Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, and W Kiltsckho..

                    What is record vs top men? Legends.


                    Dempsey sort of has none right? Sharkey is a top win with Dempsey low blow and left hook combo.

                    Louis should be 4-5 vs the top men he fought in Schemling, Conn, Walcott , Marciano and Charles. But he is 5-4 and can thank his lucky stars the Conn match was only 12 rounds and there was no s 10 point must system for the Walcott fight.

                    Liston but 2-2 in his biggest matches.

                    Frazier is but 1-4

                    Tyson did not win any big fights, he lost them badly.

                    Holyfield beat Tyson, but is 1-3-1 in his other biggest fights.

                    Point being even the legends are easy to nit pick at, which was your goal. Vitali's losses we not because of ring ability. They were due to a shoulder injury and cuts. Ali himself once lost an amateur match on cuts. Point being injuries and cuts happen can happen to anyone in boxing.
                    With all due respect, your criteria was Ring ranked fighters. I don't have Dempsey in my top ten either which many think is sacrilege. But I'll bet every one of those fighter beat more Top 10 Ring rated fighter than Vits. What's more. I would probably also bet there opponents top 10 records are deeper and more accomplished. Of course this is just a guess at this point, but one I'd be willing to gamble on. Vits was a tough cat, no doubt. But his ledger just doesn't support a top 10 spot by any means. But lists are subjective, so who am I to say??
                    Last edited by JAB5239; 10-27-2022, 01:00 PM.
                    Ivich Ivich likes this.

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