Rocky vs Sonny Size Matchup

[them_apples]

Liston was exceptionally strong we have the testimony of another exceptionally strong boxer about that, Foreman
Bottom line Marciano is completely unproven against modern sized, class, prime heavyweights,he never fought one!
If it doesn't matter why aren't 185lbs 5 feet ten guys challenging for the heavyweight title because that's where the money is?
If it doesn't matter why did Michael Moorer add 35lbs to his frame to fight the heavies?
If it doesnt matter why did Mike Spinks add 30 lbs to his frame to fight Holmes?
If it doesn't matter why did Evander Holyfield bulk up by 25lbs to compete against the heavyweights?
If it doesn't matter why did Usyk add 23 lbs to his frame to fight the heavies, and why has he added still more to fight AJ in the rematch?
Do you know something they don't?

Here is Rocky standing next to 6 ft 3 in Ali.
Lewis is 2 inches taller than Ali has an 84inch reach and is30lbs of muscle heavier than Ali.
Marciano would look like a dwarf against Lennox !
Its a paradox that otherwise objective fans lose all sense of proportion and physics when Marciano 's name comes up. Its not as though he was even particularly fast or elusive,he was outboxed for rounds by average fighters like Lastarza, behind on points against 38years old Walcott,dropped by Moore whose Mother said he was 2 years older than he claimed,jabbed and marked up by a 37 years old one handed Louis whose left he could not avoid.
Walking down a 185lbs non puncher like Lastarza who had nothing to hurt him with and still needing11 rds to stop him on his feet is totally different to walking into Liston's artillery!
All his career Marciano was willing to take punishment to get his own punches off,that is a recipe for disaster against monster hitters like Liston,Foreman,Lewis.

Extremely misleading post. how about we just watch the video instead? this photo makes ali look massive (he is about 235 lbs here) in the ring Rocky looked about Frazier size. Misleading post.

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fak1.ostkcdn.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fis%2Fimages%2Fdirect%2Fd63fc96a5d78d644c08fbdb80fb4b2266b89641b%2FMuhammad-Ali-fighting-Rocky-Marciano-Photo-Print.jpg&f=1&nofb=1.jpg
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Won't pick Rocky over Liston, but won't count him out against anyone that stands in front of him either.
Rocky is unproven against huge heavies, but the men before him weren't, and he beat them. There footage of an even older Moore stopping a 6 ft 3 220 lb heavy on youtube, and quite easily too - considered a tune up.

[Ivich]

Extremely misleading post. how about we just watch the video instead? this photo makes ali look massive (he is about 235 lbs here) in the ring Rocky looked about Frazier size. Misleading post.

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fak1.ostkcdn.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fis%2Fimages%2Fdirect%2Fd63fc96a5d78d644c08fbdb80fb4b2266b89641b%2FMuhammad-Ali-fighting-Rocky-Marciano-Photo-Print.jpg&f=1&nofb=1.jpg
?u=http%3A%2F%2Fd279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.net%2Fwp%2F2018%2F07%2FAli-and-Marciano-bigger.jpg&f=1&nofb=1.jpg
Won't pick Rocky over Liston, but won't count him out against anyone that stands in front of him either.
Rocky is unproven against huge heavies, but the men before him weren't, and he beat them. There footage of an even older Moore stopping a 6 ft 3 220 lb heavy on youtube, and quite easily too - considered a tune up.

Ali was 4 1/2 inches taller than Rocky nearly 30lbs lighter is that misleading ,or the truth ?
The men before Marciano that he beat never beat class modern sized heavyweights.Marciano's best wins came against old men is that misleading or the truth?Moore was a great light heavyweight puncher ,but not a great heavyweight puncher,is that misleading or the truth?
I see you ducked answering my questions and we both know why.So who is being misleading and who is telling the truth and presenting facts?
Is this photo misleading?

[them_apples]

Ali was 4 1/2 inches taller than Rocky nearly 30lbs lighter is that misleading ,or the truth ?
The men before Marciano that he beat never beat class modern sized heavyweights.Marciano's best wins came against old men is that misleading or the truth?Moore was a great light heavyweight puncher ,but not a great heavyweight puncher,is that misleading or the truth?
I see you ducked answering my questions and we both know why.So who is being misleading and who is telling the truth and presenting facts?
Is this photo misleading?

yeah its misleading because the video is on youtube (this new photo you posted Rocky is closer to the camera, his feet are lower than Alis). just watch the video or post it, stop looking for specific photos that makes Ali looks massive. once again I repeat, refer to the video as this has the 2 men in the ring at the same time, mock fighting. end of. Your response just beat around the bush. being 4 inches taller is less than a coca cola pop can, you know that right?

[Ivich]

yeah its misleading because the video is on youtube (this new photo you posted Rocky is closer to the camera, his feet are lower than Alis). just watch the video or post it, stop looking for specific photos that makes Ali looks massive. once again I repeat, refer to the video as this has the 2 men in the ring at the same time, mock fighting. end of. Your response just beat around the bush. being 4 inches taller is less than a coca cola pop can, you know that right?

4 and a half inches taller and 30lbs heavier.News flash Ali WAS massive compared to Rocky!
I was looking for photos of them standing stationary together if you can find others please do so .I bought the computer fight about 25. years ago I know what they look like!
Why don't you answer my questions instead of getting fixated on photos?
If size doesn't matter, why did all those guys I mentioned bulk up to fight heavies?
We both know the reason is because at a certain point. IT DOES MATTER!

Why do you think it took so long for a light heavyweight champ to win the heavyweight title?

Why do you think Spinks, the boxer that achieved this added 30lbs to attempt it?
Why did Moorer add 35 lbs before he tried for the heavy crown?
You have no answer to these questions,or perhaps you do but don't want to admit the truth because it reflects disastrously on Marciano's chances of beating class ,modern sized heavyweight that have power,and you cannot bring yourself to do that?

Don't be despondent there are literally dozens of Rocky fans who are just the same! And, if they can tacitly accept he would be facing enormous physical disadvantages in todays heavyweight division they bizarrely dilute it with the caveat." Ahh but if he were fighting today he would be 220lbs! "I've even seen some ludicrously claim he would be taller! If Marciano added 45lbs to his frame he would be slower and have less stamina .
Marciano trained for up to 6 months for fights,with his lack of skills and diminutive stature he was compelled to!

[them_apples]

4 and a half inches taller and 30lbs heavier.News flash Ali WAS massive compared to Rocky!
I was looking for photos of them standing stationary together if you can find others please do so .I bought the computer fight about 25. years ago I know what they look like!
Why don't you answer my questions instead of getting fixated on photos?
If size doesn't matter, why did all those guys I mentioned bulk up to fight heavies?
We both know the reason is because at a certain point. IT DOES MATTER!

Why do you think it took so long for a light heavyweight champ to win the heavyweight title?

Why do you think Spinks, the boxer that achieved this added 30lbs to attempt it?
Why did Moorer add 35 lbs before he tried for the heavy crown?
You have no answer to these questions,or perhaps you do but don't want to admit the truth because it reflects disastrously on Marciano's chances of beating class ,modern sized heavyweight that have power,and you cannot bring yourself to do that?

Don't be despondent there are literally dozens of Rocky fans who are just the same! And, if they can tacitly accept he would be facing enormous physical disadvantages in todays heavyweight division they bizarrely dilute it with the caveat." Ahh but if he were fighting today he would be 220lbs! "I've even seen some ludicrously claim he would be taller! If Marciano added 45lbs to his frame he would be slower and have less stamina .
Marciano trained for up to 6 months for fights,with his lack of skills and diminutive stature he was compelled to!

Here's when size matters: when all things else are the same - a great bigger man usually beats a great smaller man.

If I had a gun to my head I'd pick both Ali and Liston over Rocky. I'd pick Ali 9 times out of 10 and Liston 7 times out of 10.

However, once it doesn't involve another great fighter, or someone of slightly lower caliber - all that goes out the window. Theres been enough light heavies who won heavyweight titles, there's even been middleweights.

The big problem I have is when people completely write certain fighters off based on a pretty limited window of perspective. These fights could play out in so many different ways.

Rocky would absolutely crush a 6'4 250 lb fighter if they weren't anything special. It could even be a first round KO. He could also perhaps be punching air and get tagged all night by a prime ali, whos legs would give Rocky serious problems.

He could be kept at bay all night by Lewis and tagged with big pot shots and get frustrated, OR as the fight wears on he get's hungrier and hungrier setting a pace Lewis isn't used to which is something we have seen Rocky do. and these small men were surviving because of their defense, not their durability. they absolutely could not take Marciano's punches at all. Marciano's crouch style we haven't seen in 60 years - there's a huge wildcard on what an upright boxer like Lewis might have to do to hit him - it could be very ugly at times.

Let's not pretend this isn't possible, Brewster absolutely slept Wlad, whos taller than Lewis, and Ruiz just destroyed Joshua, wos also taller than Lewis. Ruiz is at best 6 ft 1 tall. If you want proof on this we can easily find some. Starting with his sparring session with Holyfield, who he's shorter than, and standing beside people known to 5 ft 11 and looking nearly eye to eye.

On top of that Joshua towered over Ruiz. it wasn't a few inches difference.

but even outside of height, nobody saw this coming, an obese man with no feet absolutely wrecking a 6 ft 6 chiseled athlete - (with no skills lol)

The one thing I got out of Marcianos computer fight with Ali, he's more skillful than people realize and he is strong as a bull. You can easily see this. Ali is much bigger than him but Rocky is just an absolute bull.

Tysons exactly Marcianos height and is probably even sitting lower these days. We can't pinpoint height exactly through pictures - but we can certainly see that Ruiz is shorter than Holyfield based on 2 sources. Mikes not even standing up straight like ruiz is,

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thescottishsun.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F2%2F2019%2F11%2FSPORT-PREVIEW-Ruiz-Mike-Tyson.jpg%3Fstrip%3Dall%26quality%3D100%26w%3D1200%26h%3D800%26crop%3D1&f=1&nofb=1.jpg

[Ivich]

Here's when size matters: when all things else are the same - a great bigger man usually beats a great smaller man.

If I had a gun to my head I'd pick both Ali and Liston over Rocky. I'd pick Ali 9 times out of 10 and Liston 7 times out of 10.

However, once it doesn't involve another great fighter, or someone of slightly lower caliber - all that goes out the window. Theres been enough light heavies who won heavyweight titles, there's even been middleweights.

The big problem I have is when people completely write certain fighters off based on a pretty limited window of perspective. These fights could play out in so many different ways.

Rocky would absolutely crush a 6'4 250 lb fighter if they weren't anything special. It could even be a first round KO. He could also perhaps be punching air and get tagged all night by a prime ali, whos legs would give Rocky serious problems.

He could be kept at bay all night by Lewis and tagged with big pot shots and get frustrated, OR as the fight wears on he get's hungrier and hungrier setting a pace Lewis isn't used to which is something we have seen Rocky do. and these small men were surviving because of their defense, not their durability. they absolutely could not take Marciano's punches at all. Marciano's crouch style we haven't seen in 60 years - there's a huge wildcard on what an upright boxer like Lewis might have to do to hit him - it could be very ugly at times.

Let's not pretend this isn't possible, Brewster absolutely slept Wlad, whos taller than Lewis, and Ruiz just destroyed Joshua, wos also taller than Lewis. Ruiz is at best 6 ft 1 tall. If you want proof on this we can easily find some. Starting with his sparring session with Holyfield, who he's shorter than, and standing beside people known to 5 ft 11 and looking nearly eye to eye.

On top of that Joshua towered over Ruiz. it wasn't a few inches difference.

but even outside of height, nobody saw this coming, an obese man with no feet absolutely wrecking a 6 ft 6 chiseled athlete - (with no skills lol)

The one thing I got out of Marcianos computer fight with Ali, he's more skillful than people realize and he is strong as a bull. You can easily see this. Ali is much bigger than him but Rocky is just an absolute bull.

Tysons exactly Marcianos height and is probably even sitting lower these days. We can't pinpoint height exactly through pictures - but we can certainly see that Ruiz is shorter than Holyfield based on 2 sources. Mikes not even standing up straight like ruiz is,

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thescottishsun.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F2%2F2019%2F11%2FSPORT-PREVIEW-Ruiz-Mike-Tyson.jpg%3Fstrip%3Dall%26quality%3D100%26w%3D1200%26h%3D800%26crop%3D1&f=1&nofb=1.jpg

No lhvy has won the hvy crown without adding significant weight that alone is a hugely telling factor. We arent talking about Fitz koing a 180lbs something Corbett nowadays, we are talking about a 175lbs fighter taking on guys 65lbs heavier than that.Bob Foster is one of the top 4 lhvys ever imo, but he couldnt add meaningful weight to his frame and though he could beat the also rans of the heavier division he couldnt seriouisly compete with the class big men.
Size alone won't cut it ,but all things being equal ,if two guys are of comparable skill sets and levels of fitness the big un usually beats the little un.In my experience of boxing forums,Marciano is the single most polarizing figure.There never seems to be room for much middle ground.

[QueensburyRules]

4 and a half inches taller and 30lbs heavier.News flash Ali WAS massive compared to Rocky!
I was looking for photos of them standing stationary together if you can find others please do so .I bought the computer fight about 25. years ago I know what they look like!
Why don't you answer my questions instead of getting fixated on photos?
If size doesn't matter, why did all those guys I mentioned bulk up to fight heavies?
We both know the reason is because at a certain point. IT DOES MATTER!

Why do you think it took so long for a light heavyweight champ to win the heavyweight title?

Why do you think Spinks, the boxer that achieved this added 30lbs to attempt it?
Why did Moorer add 35 lbs before he tried for the heavy crown?
You have no answer to these questions,or perhaps you do but don't want to admit the truth because it reflects disastrously on Marciano's chances of beating class ,modern sized heavyweight that have power,and you cannot bring yourself to do that?

Don't be despondent there are literally dozens of Rocky fans who are just the same! And, if they can tacitly accept he would be facing enormous physical disadvantages in todays heavyweight division they bizarrely dilute it with the caveat." Ahh but if he were fighting today he would be 220lbs! "I've even seen some ludicrously claim he would be taller! If Marciano added 45lbs to his frame he would be slower and have less stamina .
Marciano trained for up to 6 months for fights,with his lack of skills and diminutive stature he was compelled to!

- - "Now there U go again" to quote the late, great Ronald Reagan.

Spinks fought in the same day weighin era, and since fight weights had almost never been deemed necessary to record, we don't know his fight weights. At 6-3, 175 lb, as I recall he walked around at 190lbs always in shape, so dropping 5 lbs of physical mass and dehydrating 10 lbs as I used to do working construction in the summertime in spite of drinking plenty of water, it was easy for him to make weight, so projected fight weight 10 hours later prob 185lbs

Moorer fought in the day before weighin era where was noted as a HUGE lightheavy. 34 hours later he was well over the 190 lb cruiser limit, prob touching 200, and point in fact when moving up to hvy, he skipped cruiser completely to become a smallish 214 lb hvy vs same sized Vander who took a couple of years to get that big. Moorer quickly went into the 220s and even higher peaking at 250 though nobody thought he was really in shape by then, but he was usually winning.

[tokon]

Just with regard to Marciano against Liston. Outside of height, weight, reach, styles, etc., irrespective who Marciano had went on with, he'd never quit and always found a way to win. Liston didn't. Sometimes intangibles that don't fit neatly into statistics can be the deciding factor.

[Ivich]

Just with regard to Marciano against Liston. Outside of height, weight, reach, styles, etc., irrespective who Marciano had went on with, he'd never quit and always found a way to win. Liston didn't. Sometimes intangibles that don't fit neatly into statistics can be the deciding factor.

Fighting with a broken jaw Liston fought on to lose a split dec .Fighting with a broken nose Liston came back to ko his opponent .I match guys prime for prime, I don't think Liston was prime for Ali.

[them_apples]

Just with regard to Marciano against Liston. Outside of height, weight, reach, styles, etc., irrespective who Marciano had went on with, he'd never quit and always found a way to win. Liston didn't. Sometimes intangibles that don't fit neatly into statistics can be the deciding factor.

You are preaching to the choir man, absolutely. People jump to conclusions real fast.

and its true light heavies put on weight when they move up, but not as much as we think especially early on. They pretty much just eat a bit more and don’t cut anything. So even Foster would come in a bit heavier. But this means nothing because it was fosters style that got him beat. He bullies smaller guys and that style wont work against bigger stronger men. Foster was a big lhw with great punch mechanics, jab and a good chin. Outside of that his skills and ring IQ were lack luster. Doug Jones was the same size as him and bested him before his lhw run as well.

and truth be told we don’t really know the actual weights of these guys. You read biographies on them and they mention their personal weights before hand and after which are never mentioned on tv or anything at the time. Take Hearns for example against SRL. Leonard said on fight night he looked like he went up a weight class compared to the weigh in. 10 lbs is easy to cut for a bigger guy even on a single day weigh in, so I’m curious how much Hearns actually weighed at 147 on fight night. He certainly dwarfed Hagler. Foreman said in the amateurs he was 235 lbs, and it was Joe Louis who told him he was carrying too much weight. (I think it was Joe Louis) but Foreman was very heavy as a youth but eventually cut down to a chiseled 220 lb boxing physique. Liston only weeks away from a fight would be over 230 lbs but somehow they would mark his weight ar 215 or something, likely to sell to the public that he was in shape and ready to go.

out side of this though, lbs don’t mean everything because weight can be held in many different areas. You could have someone with skinny arms and upperbody with a huge ass. This is why a female at 135 is not the same as a male at 135 they are completely different weight distribution.