A key point that proves oldschool fighters were tougher and better chinned

[QueensburyRules]

- - Godot still waiting on OP to show up.

[Anthony342]

yes sir! I always hate to tell anyone, "nah" don't bark up that tree... History is littered with great theories that were flat out wrong... Sometimes these theories make much more sense than what we know to be true lol... There has to be value to these wrong theories that are so well contrived!

harveys theories of circulation were wrong, but they taught us so much about arteries and what they are... There were Roman theories of vision that talked about an essence, a part of that which we saw coming on to the eyeball lol... And Aristotle had ideas about physics that were used for hundreds of years that are now off the shelf so to speak...

HAAAAARVEY. To paraphrase Ralph Kramden, well now you know better than to listen to HAAAARVEY .

[them_apples]

there was no notion of running around and jabbing to a victory

Some old time boxers who jabbed and cuted their way to victory:

Willie Pep
Slapsie Maxie
Tommy Loughran
Jim Corbett
Braddock
Joey Giardello (33 KOs, 133 fights)
Nicolino Locche (Or is 50 years not long enough?)
Jimmy Young
Joey Giambra? (31 KOs, 77 fights)
Joey Archer

And a lot more. These guys could not punch their way out of cobweb, so had top box.

It's automatic that all eras had pure boxers without much punch.

All of these guys still fought, they fought and moved. Non of them "ran". the closest was Pep - but while he was running he was also ****ing. You know this too, which is why you worded it as "jabbed and cuted" which basically means they were clever and skillful and didn't just come to swing. Nobody on that list came to run, out side of Pep who was fully aware of this image but to my eyes was still throwing while he was running.

in fact, this list should more so be for "guys that fought but couldn't punch very hard"

[Bundana]

on the topic of not being able to display anymore heart than Marquez or Vasquez, well that is totally up for debate as well because it is dependant on competition as well. By no means am I questioning their hearts as fighters, but if we are comparing the greatest hearts of 2015 to 1940, well once again, the old timers win.

What qualifies you to make this call? What is it you know, that the rest of us don't? I don't get, how you can seriously make a statement like that... since we obviously have no way of knowing, if this is true or not!

[User Name HERE]

Fighters who never get iron chinned kudos; Macho Camacho and (lesser known) Angel Robinson Garcia.
These guys faced all time KO artists their entire career and never got KO'd.
Macho never KO'd and Angel only had 3 stoppage losses out of 239 fights and all were from cuts. Never stopped by any of the legends he fought.

[Willie Pep 229]

All of these guys still fought, they fought and moved. Non of them "ran". the closest was Pep - but while he was running he was also ****ing. You know this too, which is why you worded it as "jabbed and cuted" which basically means they were clever and skillful and didn't just come to swing. Nobody on that list came to run, out side of Pep who was fully aware of this image but to my eyes was still throwing while he was running.

in fact, this list should more so be for "guys that fought but couldn't punch very hard"

I wouldn't put Braddock on a list of 'runners'. Brittle hands hurt his ability to **** - but he was nothing like a 'jab and cute' fighter either.

[Willie Pep 229]

What qualifies you to make this call? What is it you know, that the rest of us don't? I don't get, how you can seriously make a statement like that... since we obviously have no way of knowing, if this is true or not!

I don't know - if we accept your standards for evaluating such things as 'heart' - 'grit' - 'toughness' - we would never be allowed to use those words. These words never rise above opinion but yet we still find them to be a useful evaluation tool.

There is no doubt that they are subjective evaluations and can never be objectively discerned but we do draw such conclusions about individuals and at times we act on these opinions, e.g laying a bet, providing promotions, or choosing friends.

If Apple sees a tougher generation in 1940, after some serious historical study, than it is a fair assessment for him to make so long as it is recognized as being subjective (just his opinion; but nevertheless a valid opinion.)

[Bundana]

I don't know - if we accept your standards for evaluating such things as 'heart' - 'grit' - 'toughness' - we would never be allowed to use those words. These words never rise above opinion but yet we still find them to be a useful evaluation tool.

There is no doubt that they are subjective evaluations and can never be objectively discerned but we do draw such conclusions about individuals and at times we act on these opinions, e.g laying a bet, providing promotions, or choosing friends.

If Apple sees a tougher generation in 1940, after some serious historical study, than it is a fair assessment for him to make so long as it is recognized as being subjective (just his opinion; but nevertheless a valid opinion.)

I wasn't aware, I had special standards for "heart", "grit", "toughness"! I'm just saying, that there is no way we can determine, which eras come out on top in these (and other) categories!

So you think serious historical studies form the foundation for Appel's opinions? Have you not noticed how he, year after year, in thread after thread, post after post, has had only one ambition: to ridicule and denigrate modern boxers/boxing?

How (in his opinion) most boxers today have weak chins, give up too easily, have lost the old school knowledge necessary to set an opponent up for a knockout blow, have lost the desire to "fight" and lose without a scratch on their face, how pad work is detrimental to their punching power, how today's boxers are ruined as amateurs where they develop into robots trained only to score points, how they gas after 4 rounds... and how modern boxers like Bivol and Canelo "just don't know how to actually fight"

I'm sorry, maybe it's just me... but this doesn't really sound like unbiased opinions, imo!

[StarshipTrooper]

And what compels a man to flaunt his ass cheeks so obviously? I have never seen another pair of boxing trunks like Corbett wore. The man must have loved his own ass.

I'm sure Ol' Leffy knows an ass when he sees one from looking in the mirror every morning

[The Old LefHook]

To me this is the best thread of the year so far, not because I believe the premise (I don't) but because of all the debate it has engendered. Congratulations to Apple.