Marciano and his management

[billeau2]

First watched this fight in the early 60's when I bought it on super 8mm, I've seen it probably 25 times since then, and the whole fight ,not highlights . ****ell was warned for fouling,Marciano was not!
I take it you dismiss the ringside reporters accounts out of hand?
Straws and clutching comes to mind here! LOL

See what you do?
Ghost made an observation. You attacked him for it. Like he had some agenda in bringing up a legitimate point. You don't want to be questioned old man... You want to be worshipped as a grand poo pa. You even use your own experience as an appeal to authority which is egotistical nonsense. You just attacked a poster for daring to disagree with you.

[billeau2]

He didn’t respond to me but he was asking why other fighters didn’t become muggers after going through what Rocky did.

funny thing is, a lot of them WERE muggers just like him. Boxing was full of those type and you were an anomaly if you weren’t. They tried selling Rocky as a role model and loved the fact that he could play it well. Listen to him talk on TV he’s acting half the time. Ill go even further and say poor kids in general became muggers. I don’t think he’s any different than anyone else in boxing. According to any biography ive read.

Ray Leonard got the same treatment, charming, married with kids……..vicious coke addiction, privately owned condo for a getaway every night with hookers (for years) total opposite of the image the media sold. All that would explain his left hook to the body one of the nastiest in the business

Exactly TA... Boxing came up out of the classes where street life was the norm... When Barkley fought Duran? you had the leader of the Black Aces, a notorious Street Gang in the South Bronx back then against a local street kid who went on crime sprees to eat (Duran) lol.

[billeau2]

Edgarg, you are completely under the spell of an illusion. You just keep harping that Marciano is a dirty fighter, when in fact he was pretty clean for being so rough. You must be a complete churl wipe whose pea-mind is already ineluctably made up, in spite of evidence.

Or an alt for the grand poo pa. Lol. Marciano was worshipped by the Italian gangsters. One can make of that what they will... Even Sinatra and company loved the rock.

[Ivich]

See what you do?
Ghost made an observation. You attacked him for it. Like he had some agenda in bringing up a legitimate point. You don't want to be questioned old man... You want to be worshipped as a grand poo pa. You even use your own experience as an appeal to authority which is egotistical nonsense. You just attacked a poster for daring to disagree with you.

Ghost stated ****ell was guilty of many fouls ,he made this observation from watching highlights of the fight and suggested I do so implying I wasn't familar with them.
1,I own the whole fight and have done so for over 50 years.
2.I don't see all these fouls he says ****ell committed.Do You?
3.No ringside report I've ever read mentions these many fouls by ****ell.
4.Ghost says in mitigation for Marciano's repetitive fouling that he may have been retaliating for ****ell's dirty tactics.This is palpable nonsense.As the US writers stated Marciano fouled all night.
5.It isnt a legitimate point when the substance of it is totally BS.
6. I came here for argument and debate what I've seen so far from you and three others is a load of hero fanboy worship with a blatant disregard for the facts,and excusing them by saying I'm biased because I'm a Brit this from yourself.My Grandchildren know more about boxing history than you. I require no worship ,I'm an average boxing fan with no special knowledge ,but I do like to get to the truth.
7. Your opinion of me ,whether good or bad is totally valueless as far as I'm concerned, as is your opinion on boxing and all things related to it.
8..Your pathetic apologies for fouling , your nauseating idolatry and desperate excuses would be laughable if they were't so needy and sad.
9. I've two requests from you.
A. Watch the Marciano,v ****ell fight and tell me who is committing all the fouls.
B.Read the next day ringside fight reports and tell me what the opinion of those ringside reporters was,did they think Marciano continually fouled ****ell or not?

10.****ell would not have beaten Marciano, even if Marciano had not committed a single foul he simply was not good enough.However if the fight had been held in the UK[some chance!] Marciano would have been DSQ'd!

[Ivich]

My interpretation? Buddy, it's clear as day, round 3, watch it for yourself. ****ell lunges into Rocky's face head first! It's not my interpretation, it's there for any one of you to view for yourselves. You're not providing any context when you try to claim Rocky was a dirty fighter. Hitting Moore after the bell? How long after? Was it in fact a cheap shot or a punch thrown at the bell? Was Rocky merely retaliating against ****ell for his dirty tactics? Seems that way to me.

Is hitting below the belt a foul?
Is hitting your opponent whilst he is down a foul?
Is hitting after the bell a foul?
Is butting a foul?
Yes?
No?
Marciano committed all these in the three examples I showed.
What context excuses these fouls?
I made the posts because Left Hook stated Marciano was a gentleman inside the ring and accused me of slander for daring to disagree with him and telling me to provide evidence I was right and he was wrong.I provided the evidence. I was right,and he was wrong!

[Ivich]

Everyone can see. Rocky fought so cleanly it brings tears to one's eyes. The Rock had galoot-bane in either mitt. ****ell himself would be a top contender today, or world champ. He and Fury could bump soft bodies for the belt.

****ell would not last 3 rounds with Joshua, who himself is a very flawed fighter. Fury would toy with him .
****ell was a very nice guy I met him once.Unfortunately for us Brits, he wasn.t any great shakes as a fighter,He was ko'd by a middleweight.

• "Former middleweight champion Randy Turpin, still middleweight king of Britain, added British national and empire light heavyweight crowns to his collection last night after stopping Don ****ell in the 11th round of their scheduled 15 round bout at White City Stadium. Turpin, weighing 162, floored ****ell twice in the 11th before the referee stopped the bout at 1:10 of the round. ****ell, who scaled 174 1/4 pounds, also hit the canvas in the 3rd round after a hard right to the jaw." -International News Service
• ****ell down a total of three times during the fight.
• .

I don't know how to make a thread here, if I did I think I could achieve the almost impossible and make myself even more unpopular with you fervent Marcianistas!

[Ivich]

Or an alt for the grand poo pa. Lol. Marciano was worshipped by the Italian gangsters. One can make of that what they will... Even Sinatra and company loved the rock.

Marciano went to visit Frankie Carbo in hospital.

[Ivich]

Try? for what? Whats the contest we are entered into? remind me please? Ha ha lol... Ok. Yeah I am just that guy who Marciano could do no wrong with... You can tell by my previous posting history right? All those Marciano threads I made.... Oh wait...

You can try to weasel out all you like Bub... You came in here to take names and show how smart you are and it didn't work out. Bottom line. Marciano mugged a fem... Marciano hit someone on the kidney... Marciano stopped his mum from perfecting the first recipe for chopped liver, thus making my people the Deli Kings! When the weather is bad? I shake a fist and blame Marchgiano!!

It doesn't matter what I "think." You know those facts you like so much? they have a context. I never made a valued Judgement about Marciano being a good, or bad man... show me if I did. I simply stated the circumstances surrounding his behavior. Do you understand this? Because it just blew you out of the water. Where did I:

1. Claim Marciano was a good/bad man?
2. Claim to be a fan of Marciano?

Show me...

No its not a matter of IF he did the things you claim and which I never refuted... You just want an appeal to authority and to win arguments lol!! What ann idiot you are... We read books and take in facts to understand WHY people did things. NOt to try to impress others that you read an account of something a fighter did. Who cares? Your in a section where people take information and work with it.... make observations... Its not a trivia contest tp prove you know a fact from source material many of us have read ourselves...

You have not earned any respect. Earn it and it will be given. in your last example you say "Marciano cut easy" I guess to you everyone should then say "Wow!!" Incredible deduction, wow! sixty plus years of reading factoids, kindly tell us other such enlightening tidbits!" See? you admit it: you don't want a dialogue you want people to shut up and appreciate your insights... SORRY BUB! Provide one that merits that response and you will get it lol. Respect is earned and not given...Something I trained my two boys to understand from an early age.

Since your opinion is worthless to me , why would I want your respect?

[Ivich]

He didn’t respond to me but he was asking why other fighters didn’t become muggers after going through what Rocky did.

funny thing is, a lot of them WERE muggers just like him. Boxing was full of those type and you were an anomaly if you weren’t. They tried selling Rocky as a role model and loved the fact that he could play it well. Listen to him talk on TV he’s acting half the time. Ill go even further and say poor kids in general became muggers. I don’t think he’s any different than anyone else in boxing. According to any biography ive read.

Ray Leonard got the same treatment, charming, married with kids……..vicious coke addiction, privately owned condo for a getaway every night with hookers (for years) total opposite of the image the media sold. All that would explain his left hook to the body one of the nastiest in the business

Nope I'm pointing out that excusing Marciano for his actions by citing his environment won't wash because many, many others far more worse off then he and in more desperate traits did not resort to them.
Marciano mugged a gay man in the UK beat him up with a fellow soldier and took his wallet.At the time Marciano was in the US Army so he was getting his three squares a day, clothes on his back, a warm place to sleep, and his army pay to spend,so where was the necessity for him to mug someone? You named two examples of others .
1.Barkley he was in a street gang yes?Was he ever convicted of mugging anyone?
2,Duran who came from a home with an absent Father and dire poverty. Poverty that Marciano certainly never experienced.Its documented that Duran as a boy used to swim across a river to steal mangoes,swim back with them ,sell them and help out his Mother and siblings with the money he raised .That's entirely different from being a well fed ,well clothed soldier and mugging a person for a few bucks just because there are two of you and you can .
If you cannot see the difference between them then you seriously need some help?
Rocky did wrong ,he was caught convicted and paid for his crime,wiping the slate clean,and never did such a thing again,fair does to him!
But for the love of Christ, don't come out with that totally dishonest claptrap and try and excuse his actions,by citing Ray Leonard's coke habit as akin to mugging a man!
I come from a poor background ,a place popularly nick named Rat Island two families, ten people, in one house, shared clothes and shoes, none of my family mugged anyone nor did any of the kids I grew up with,I'd like to bet Marciano never had it as bad as I and my relations did!
Just stop with the hand wringing excuses.

[Marchegiano]

There any sources in this thread?