Fury as an ATG

[billeau2]

Not for nothin', but I've been listening to people say "This era sucks" for boxing, literally for more than 50 years! People who really follow the sport like you, sayingthis and reallt believing what they're saying. I'm not going to make any conclusions about why that is because I imagine multiple causes, but it is a very, very common thing, and no era is spared. Not a one. Weird, huh?

There are differences regarding who makes these statements. There are also regularities that seem to escape people's attention: I liken it to when I lived in a Buddhist Monastery for a while... and a very intelligent Monk was explaining to 20 year old "me" the difference between "seeing" something and just looking at it. He used the example of a bike who a car driver "looks at" but might not really "see" when expecting other cars primarily to be the problem.

In the heavyweight division if one LOOKS and is prepared to "Grok" to really "see" they will notice that many eras do not have even two ATG fighters... because not many guys are that weight on average. Look at champions like Patterson, Liston, JOhnson, and many many more, and one will notice that during a champion's prime there were not other ATG fighters to measure up against. So its not atypical for a heavyweight to be in this situation.

The best way to look at the quality in the division is often the "eye test." Look at a typical opponent liston might face and be prepared to be shocked. No name recognition to be sure, but on average, fighters were doing so many things in the ring! One would have to acknowledge the skills displayed as compared to when we look and fighters are doing very little in the ring. Compare the average opponent and one will see that the fighting in the division today is very basic compared to bygone eras. To me that matters.

Does not mean there is not greatness... Usyk and Fury fit the bill IMO.

[billeau2]

Or, you can actually do your own research instead of just blowing it off as just talk. Maybe try talking to Them_Apples about the actual skills that have been lost.

Yup. The eye test. ONLY because we have the materials to look at! Back in the day, when Star Trek showed us what was to come with
Google and Cell Phones... one could only imagine being able to get lost in a film library and ask a computer to show you virtually any fight that had been taped. And here we are: Its not only possible but a great practice for looking at talent. One could simply take a pad and pencil and write down all the things a no name opponent of a fighting champ in the forties, or fifties, was doing in the ring... then compare them to some of the many ammy talents we get today... guys like Wallin, Povatkin, who step, and jab, and do maybe a few more things now and then? One gear always... never another. Very different from what fighters were able to do in the ring traditionally. And its all right there for people!

[billeau2]

I think this era is better than the Wlad era. Guys are fighting one another more often and not circulating out of the top ten as quickly. Its also more exciting. Just my opinion of course.

There is talent coming up the ranks. It could be a breakthrough. Fury has recentered greatness upon Detriot boxing genius. Younger guys are training in these gyms and learning to do things, the little things, that make someone able and not just a one gear fighter.

The Klits had their moments and Vitalie could have been greater imo but they could never shift gears... Heck its even why Vitlalie lost to Lewis imo. When his face was being pulverized... why not do what Lyle and Foreman did? Fight harder, faster and with desperation. To beat Fury one has to be able to switch out of the dreadful jab... shuffle jab... shuffle.... shuffle shuffle.... jab...shuffle that the Ammy style seems to perpetuate. Usyk is another great one: when Joshua started to hang with him? he went into 3rd gear. I see a new horizon for heavyweights where guys will have to break out of the slow footed, plodding mess, that lets these guys always lose when it counts.

[mrbig1]

Is Fury really retiring?

[JAB5239]

There is talent coming up the ranks. It could be a breakthrough. Fury has recentered greatness upon Detriot boxing genius. Younger guys are training in these gyms and learning to do things, the little things, that make someone able and not just a one gear fighter.

The Klits had their moments and Vitalie could have been greater imo but they could never shift gears... Heck its even why Vitlalie lost to Lewis imo. When his face was being pulverized... why not do what Lyle and Foreman did? Fight harder, faster and with desperation. To beat Fury one has to be able to switch out of the dreadful jab... shuffle jab... shuffle.... shuffle shuffle.... jab...shuffle that the Ammy style seems to perpetuate. Usyk is another great one: when Joshua started to hang with him? he went into 3rd gear. I see a new horizon for heavyweights where guys will have to break out of the slow footed, plodding mess, that lets these guys always lose when it counts.

Shifting gears......not to change the subject but myself and two other guys from my gym fought last month. One is a 17 year old kid who looks like an absolute prodigy. The other, 22 and tough was fighting for an amateur title. He lost a decision. My trainer and I were talking about it and how to get him to shift gears, to go for it when it's to close to call. I just don't hear many other people talking about "shifting gears" like that to often.

Anyway, I agree with you. Hopefully the up and comers will keep getting better and the best fighters in the division now keep looking for the best fights to make. I like to see contenders earn their shot against other contenders. I also like to see them come back after a loss to keep fighting for their ranking. In the Klitschko era to many contenders just waited their turn and were content to be one and done. Maybe Wlad was just that good compared to them, but thats not a championship mentality conducive to a deep division.

[QueensburyRules]

There is talent coming up the ranks. It could be a breakthrough. Fury has recentered greatness upon Detriot boxing genius. Younger guys are training in these gyms and learning to do things, the little things, that make someone able and not just a one gear fighter.

The Klits had their moments and Vitalie could have been greater imo but they could never shift gears... Heck its even why Vitlalie lost to Lewis imo. When his face was being pulverized... why not do what Lyle and Foreman did? Fight harder, faster and with desperation. To beat Fury one has to be able to switch out of the dreadful jab... shuffle jab... shuffle.... shuffle shuffle.... jab...shuffle that the Ammy style seems to perpetuate. Usyk is another great one: when Joshua started to hang with him? he went into 3rd gear. I see a new horizon for heavyweights where guys will have to break out of the slow footed, plodding mess, that lets these guys always lose when it counts.

- - Lord help Usyk if AJ ever shifts into 2nd gear. They gonna be picking up pieces for a week.
usyk-wins.jpg?resize=600%2C400&ssl=1.jpg

[JAB5239]

- - Lord help Usyk if AJ ever shifts into 2nd gear. They gonna be picking up pieces for a week.
usyk-wins.jpg?resize=600%2C400&ssl=1.jpg

Usyk was rocking AJ. I'd hate to see the damage Firy or Wilder would do to him, especially if Andy Ruiz could stop him. I still rate Joshuz the 4th best heavyweight today.

[Nash out]

- - Lord help Usyk if AJ ever shifts into 2nd gear. They gonna be picking up pieces for a week.
usyk-wins.jpg?resize=600%2C400&ssl=1.jpg

Queen, this is your charge, your mentor the Great Nash. I keep telling you to expand your boxing knowledge. I'm setting you homework. Go and watch Usyk outclass, toy with, then be seconds away from knocking out your boy, AJ, again, but this time, as a neutral, not as an AJ fanboy. Then treat yourself to watching Fury vs Wlad. Sincerely, your mentor, the Great Nash. Nash out.

[Willie Pep 229]

Queen, this is your charge, your mentor the GreatOP
Nash. I keep telling you to expand your boxing knowledge. I'm setting you homework. Go and watch Usyk outclass, toy with, then be seconds away from knocking out your boy, AJ, again, but this time, as a neutral, not as an AJ fanboy. Then treat yourself to watching Fury vs Wlad. Sincerely, your mentor, the Great Nash. Nash out.

Usyk said the day after fight that his game plan was a decision win; that he wasn't going to put it at risk by trying for a KO. His words (Paraphrased).

No one ever in danger if being KOed. Usyk was not going to take that risk. Sad statement to hear from a newly crowned King.

The game of prize fighting is being discredited by too much boxing and punch counters. Need real fighters who want to step up and fight not wait for punch counters to tell them they won.

Hope Fury catches this guy with an uppercut.

Stop blindly praising contemporary fighters and use that 'expert eye' and evaluate them as harshly as you do the old timers.

[StarshipTrooper]

That's the blind leading the ******** blind