Interesting things about Marcianos style

[them_apples]

Prime Tyson had around 30 lbs of pure muscle on him... not to mention superior hand-speed! With his come-forward style, I have a hard time imagining Rocky lasting more than a couple of rounds against a young Tyson.

You know when you are waiting for the lead up to a fight and you are picturing how it goes down based on what you know of the 2 fighters? Then when the fight finally happens, its actually a lot different than you expected. Often times a fight plays out differently simply because the opponent is more “game” than you expected. The first few rounds go how you pictured, then as the fight bears on, it takes a turn.

in the case of Tyson vs Rocky, aside from the above statement being likely the case imo, I also think Rockys low crouching and inside mauling style would completely throw Tyson off. Tyson for sure is more explosive than Rocky, and he leaps in much faster, has some strategic knockout combinations. I just don’t think we would see much of it in a fight with Rocky, like I said within smothering range, Rocky will be dropping cinder blocks on Mikes head, for however many rounds he can. Tyson on the other hand, never showing any inside ability in the cus d amato style, would he desperately looking for space to land a combination to finish the night. You can see glimpses of it vs tony Tubbs, Holyfield and buster mathis. They all have him trouble with inside work, Holyfield being the one who beat him because he was the only one capable of doing it. Tubbs and Mathis were scared and thus got knocked out. Take that concept and also add in the firepower coming back.

this is a serious fight, obviously is a hard one to predict - I just think Rocky has underated skills and ability, and Tysons are a bit overrated - but Tysons psychological impact was not. Tyson terrified fighters in the 80s. Would it scare Rocky though? I feel not so much.

[Ivich]

- - Holy said he had a "hard heart" and retired.

Holyfield said the cut eye that could not be stopped from bleeding was a significant factor in his defeat Who persuaded him to dispence with a cut man? DonTurner.End Of!

He is credited as being the man who convinced Evander Holyfield that the cutman is "the biggest scam in boxing."^[2] During the heavyweight championship bout, Holyfield suffered a cut above his left eye which kept reopening during the match, affecting his vision. The lack of a cutman is thought to have been a determining factor that cost Holyfield the match.

[Ivich]

What do you about to say about Turner now? Toothpick Turner .
The man who claims he was trained by Charlie Goldman .
The man who claims pad work is a waste of time.
FYI Goldman virtually invented pad work as we know it! There are photos of him with gloves on backwards whilst Marciano hits them.
There are photos of Goldman wearing home -made pads.
Name a top trainer Freddie Roach,Beristan,Lomachenko's Dad, whomever the **** you like ,who does not employ hook and jab pads?
Name one of those trainers who agrees with Turner that Andre Ward and Floyd Mayweather Jnr would only be 6 rds fighters back in his day?


[TR]
[TD]to catch the punches of his fighter, and *Charley Goldman the trainer of 'Rocky' Marciano the first I observed using a modified version of the Punch Mitts which the modern day trainers swear by, there's only one problem new guys, fighting is an offensive and defensive game, punch mitts as used by the modern crowd are one way, offensive only, it doesn't teach any defense and gives your boxer a false sense of doing well. I use the type of punch mitt which is a combination pad and boxing glove so if my boxer makes a mistake he pays for it! You instruct the entire game not half of it!

* Charley probably came up with this idea because 'Rocky' started late and originally he was very clumsy and he needed to find some way for 'The Rock' to refine his heavy punches, in lieu of wild haymakers.



Charley Goldman with 'Rocky' probably in early 1950's

You see, new guys you missed the last fifty plus years, you need to give a little respect to us old farts who we're plying this trade when you were no more than a glint in your ancestors eyes.

[them_apples]

What do you about to say about Turner now? Toothpick Turner .
The man who claims he was trained by Charlie Goldman .
The man who claims pad work is a waste of time.
FYI Goldman virtually invented pad work as we know it! There are photos of him with gloves on backwards whilst Marciano hits them.
There are photos of Goldman wearing home -made pads.
Name a top trainer Freddie Roach,Beristan,Lomachenko's Dad, whomever the **** you like ,who does not employ hook and jab pads?
Name one of those trainers who agrees with Turner that Andre Ward and Floyd Mayweather Jnr would only be 6 rds fighters back in his day?


[TR]
[TD]to catch the punches of his fighter, and *Charley Goldman the trainer of 'Rocky' Marciano the first I observed using a modified version of the Punch Mitts which the modern day trainers swear by, there's only one problem new guys, fighting is an offensive and defensive game, punch mitts as used by the modern crowd are one way, offensive only, it doesn't teach any defense and gives your boxer a false sense of doing well. I use the type of punch mitt which is a combination pad and boxing glove so if my boxer makes a mistake he pays for it! You instruct the entire game not half of it!

* Charley probably came up with this idea because 'Rocky' started late and originally he was very clumsy and he needed to find some way for 'The Rock' to refine his heavy punches, in lieu of wild haymakers.



Charley Goldman with 'Rocky' probably in early 1950's

You see, new guys you missed the last fifty plus years, you need to give a little respect to us old farts who we're plying this trade when you were no more than a glint in your ancestors eyes.

Yeah but you are missing the point. Modern pad work IS bad for boxing. The pad work routines of today are terrible for boxing and are really just for the camera. These days fighters are better at training than fighting. The padwork hes using was really a tool he used to help with Marcianos Balance. Nothing like the pad work you see today. Even floyds padwork was a mental focus test that people misinterpret.

padwork fighters pull their punches. They never follow through. They are tight. Hitting the pads hard is a different technique than hitting a human hard.

[Ivich]

Yeah but you are missing the point. Modern pad work IS bad for boxing. The pad work routines of today are terrible for boxing and are really just for the camera. These days fighters are better at training than fighting. The padwork hes using was really a tool he used to help with Marcianos Balance. Nothing like the pad work you see today. Even floyds padwork was a mental focus test that people misinterpret.

padwork fighters pull their punches. They never follow through. They are tight. Hitting the pads hard is a different technique than hitting a human hard.

I'm not talking about shoe shining I'm talking about moving your upper body whilst throwing punches, slipping and sliding as you hit the pads. Goldman helped Rocky's balance by tying his feet with a length of line.He used the pads to improve balance yes,but also to shorten his punches and get his feet in the right position for leverage and power.My post wasn't directed at you,you know of what you speak.

[QueensburyRules]

Yeah but you are missing the point. Modern pad work IS bad for boxing. The pad work routines of today are terrible for boxing and are really just for the camera. These days fighters are better at training than fighting. The padwork hes using was really a tool he used to help with Marcianos Balance. Nothing like the pad work you see today. Even floyds padwork was a mental focus test that people misinterpret.

padwork fighters pull their punches. They never follow through. They are tight. Hitting the pads hard is a different technique than hitting a human hard.

- - Nothing wrong with arm punches. Vitali has a 90% KO record of some of the most brutal arm punch stoppages in history.

[Bundana]

You know when you are waiting for the lead up to a fight and you are picturing how it goes down based on what you know of the 2 fighters? Then when the fight finally happens, its actually a lot different than you expected. Often times a fight plays out differently simply because the opponent is more “game” than you expected. The first few rounds go how you pictured, then as the fight bears on, it takes a turn.

in the case of Tyson vs Rocky, aside from the above statement being likely the case imo, I also think Rockys low crouching and inside mauling style would completely throw Tyson off. Tyson for sure is more explosive than Rocky, and he leaps in much faster, has some strategic knockout combinations. I just don’t think we would see much of it in a fight with Rocky, like I said within smothering range, Rocky will be dropping cinder blocks on Mikes head, for however many rounds he can. Tyson on the other hand, never showing any inside ability in the cus d amato style, would he desperately looking for space to land a combination to finish the night. You can see glimpses of it vs tony Tubbs, Holyfield and buster mathis. They all have him trouble with inside work, Holyfield being the one who beat him because he was the only one capable of doing it. Tubbs and Mathis were scared and thus got knocked out. Take that concept and also add in the firepower coming back.

this is a serious fight, obviously is a hard one to predict - I just think Rocky has underated skills and ability, and Tysons are a bit overrated - but Tysons psychological impact was not. Tyson terrified fighters in the 80s. Would it scare Rocky though? I feel not so much.

You're right, of course - we've all experienced fights, where we've been completely wrong. Where it turned out nothing, like we thought it would. I think Tyson would be too strong and hard-hitting for Marciano, but do I know for a fact, that he would flatten him inside a couple of rounds... no! Is it possible, that what Rocky brings to the table, is exactly what Tyson would have a hard time coping with? Personally, I don't see it - but yes, that's certainly a possibility.

Look, you're obviously someone who knows his boxing. You love the oldtimers, and that's fine. I do to - but that doesn't mean, I completely write off the precent, and think boxing today is total crap. Why can't we honour and admire the old fighters, for being the best in their time - without feeling it necessary to denigrate and belittle modern boxers? I don't get it!

[them_apples]

You're right, of course - we've all experienced fights, where we've been completely wrong. Where it turned out nothing, like we thought it would. I think Tyson would be too strong and hard-hitting for Marciano, but do I know for a fact, that he would flatten him inside a couple of rounds... no! Is it possible, that what Rocky brings to the table, is exactly what Tyson would have a hard time coping with? Personally, I don't see it - but yes, that's certainly a possibility.

Look, you're obviously someone who knows his boxing. You love the oldtimers, and that's fine. I do to - but that doesn't mean, I completely write off the precent, and think boxing today is total crap. Why can't we honour and admire the old fighters, for being the best in their time - without feeling it necessary to denigrate and belittle modern boxers? I don't get it!

For sure, gotta make sure to keep the balance and bias to a minimum. Im mostly directing it at those that completely write Rocky off. Its def not an easy call, I wouldn’t be surprised if Tyson gets it either. I think if I was a betting man I would leave it at Rocky gives them all a hard fight.

[them_apples]

- - Nothing wrong with arm punches. Vitali has a 90% KO record of some of the most brutal arm punch stoppages in history.

pulling your punches and arm punches are different. Pulling refers to not following through in order to bring the punch back as soon as possible. Its an amateur style based around landing as many as what you would call “punches” as possible. But they aren't real punches and theres no strategic value behind them.

arm punches refers to someone not putting much body weight behind their punches and mostly using just arms. The benefit is theres less telegraphing. The jab is almost always an arm punch in its standard form, which is why power punches and jabs are separated on the punch stats.

vitali is an arm puncher on all his shots accept the right cross. And stoppages aren't always KOs.

[billeau2]

Yeah but you are missing the point. Modern pad work IS bad for boxing. The pad work routines of today are terrible for boxing and are really just for the camera. These days fighters are better at training than fighting. The padwork hes using was really a tool he used to help with Marcianos Balance. Nothing like the pad work you see today. Even floyds padwork was a mental focus test that people misinterpret.

padwork fighters pull their punches. They never follow through. They are tight. Hitting the pads hard is a different technique than hitting a human hard.

Yeah he was told repeatedly that he was missing the point lol. Doesn't seem to sink in.

Regarding the proper use of the pads, that is correct. It leads to poor habits. When someone throws a punch through the target they do need to work balance properly... It is a reason why the old addage goes: "you get more tired missing punches than hitting the target."