Why was Ali's return from exile that much more successful than Tysons?

[Rockybigblower]

Ali probably didn't get one up the bum while imprisoned...so he probably maintained a certain feeling of invincibility. Tyson on the other hand learned that noone is special in the shower block....and that there are genuinely badder men on the planet than him. Different times.

[Ivich]

Post comeback, Ali has several gift decisions that went in his favor too. Twice in the rematches with Norton, Jimmy Young, and very controversial decisions over Frazier II and Shavers. If he loses the first Norton rematch as he should have, the remainder of his career probably takes a different trajectory.

Ali clearly beat Frazier in their 2nd fight and Shavers too.Young spent the night ducking his head and upper torso between the ropes,he didn't step up to the plate he was always a nearly man.The Norton fight could have gone Norton's way but I don't think it was a robbery ,no fight that close ever is.

• The Shavers score card
• Referee: Johnny LoBianco 9-5
• Judge: Tony Castellano 9-6
• Judge: Eva Shain 9-6

• Unofficial AP scorecard: 10-5 Ali
• Unofficial UPI scorecard: 8-6-1 Ali

The Young report

• The Associated Press reported: "Ali seemed content to toy in the first four rounds, doing very little fighting. He then began coming on in the fifth round and started landing with power, although he still missed much more than he usually does. Ali's best round seemed to be the ninth, when he went up on his toes and snapped home at least 25 punishing jabs to Young's face. But then he went flatfooted again and, while landing some good rights, he was the target of several hard rights in the final three rounds when Young came on strong. It was the only time in the fight that Young was the actual aggressor and that lack of aggressiveness early on cost him dearly."
• On six occasions, Young ducked outside of the ropes when he was pressured by Ali. He did it in the seventh round, the eighth, the 12th, twice in the 13th, and once more in the 15th. When he did it in the 12th round, the referee ruled it a knockdown and began to count. Young pulled his head back into the ring at the count of two. Mark Kram of Sports Illustrated wrote: "It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world."
• The decision was loudly booed by the crowd. Mark Kram wrote: "There was no way anyone could justify taking the title from Ali."

t

[Ivich]

- - Lost his manager, Jim Jacobs, married DKing and RGivens, diagnosed as bipolar and put on dangerous psychotropic sedatives, a trainwreck playing out in slow motion for puerile public glee and media promotions.

Got rid of his manager , he made his choices as an adult.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ali probably didn't get one up the bum while imprisoned...so he probably maintained a certain feeling of invincibility. Tyson on the other hand learned that noone is special in the shower block....and that there are genuinely badder men on the planet than him. Different times.

And you chose to waste our ******** time with this irrelevant trolling drivel why exactly?

[QueensburyRules]

Got rid of his manager , he made his choices as an adult.

- - Jimmy Jacobs DIED, passed away, adiosy.

What grade they kick U out of 6 years ago?

[GhostofDempsey]

Ali clearly beat Frazier in their 2nd fight and Shavers too.Young spent the night ducking his head and upper torso between the ropes,he didn't step up to the plate he was always a nearly man.The Norton fight could have gone Norton's way but I don't think it was a robbery ,no fight that close ever is.

• The Shavers score card
• Referee: Johnny LoBianco 9-5
• Judge: Tony Castellano 9-6
• Judge: Eva Shain 9-6

• Unofficial AP scorecard: 10-5 Ali
• Unofficial UPI scorecard: 8-6-1 Ali

The Young report

• The Associated Press reported: "Ali seemed content to toy in the first four rounds, doing very little fighting. He then began coming on in the fifth round and started landing with power, although he still missed much more than he usually does. Ali's best round seemed to be the ninth, when he went up on his toes and snapped home at least 25 punishing jabs to Young's face. But then he went flatfooted again and, while landing some good rights, he was the target of several hard rights in the final three rounds when Young came on strong. It was the only time in the fight that Young was the actual aggressor and that lack of aggressiveness early on cost him dearly."
• On six occasions, Young ducked outside of the ropes when he was pressured by Ali. He did it in the seventh round, the eighth, the 12th, twice in the 13th, and once more in the 15th. When he did it in the 12th round, the referee ruled it a knockdown and began to count. Young pulled his head back into the ring at the count of two. Mark Kram of Sports Illustrated wrote: "It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world."
• The decision was loudly booed by the crowd. Mark Kram wrote: "There was no way anyone could justify taking the title from Ali."

t

There needs to be a yawning emoji here...

[QueensburyRules]

Ali probably didn't get one up the bum while imprisoned...so he probably maintained a certain feeling of invincibility. Tyson on the other hand learned that noone is special in the shower block....and that there are genuinely badder men on the planet than him. Different times.

- - Ali weren't imprisoned during his lay off, and in fact had his case dismissed by the Supremes.

Tyson imprisoned after a DKing orchestrated dog and pony show early on had a confrontation with the 300lb Black Boss of that cell block to BTFO of him before disposal.

There are genuinely smarter beings in dog kennels than U

[Willow The Wisp]

Great question to foster dialog. True answer is that we are all a unique composition of characteristics and properties. How we interface with the world will differ, therefore. Specifically here, there was a sizable difference in emotional strength, and character. One wag above stated that Tyson's early career legacy was greater. I say no to that. About even. Add in the Olympic gold, scale tips to Ali. Just me, no panache.

[Ivich]

There needs to be a yawning emoji here...

You really cannot abide primary sourced quotes totally contradicting you ! It's pretty funny really

[GhostofDempsey]

You really cannot abide primary sourced quotes totally contradicting you ! It's pretty funny really

There is such a thing as robberies and bad decisions, perhaps you've heard of them or seen a few yourself? Where Ali was concerned, all parties involved were still milking that money machine for networks and promoters. There were no other polarizing figures in boxing at that time. Frazier, Shavers, Norton, Young were not going to fill that void if Ali loses. These fights were close enough that they could get away with gifting decisions in Ali's favor. Even refs were reluctant to warn him or penalize him, in the Frazier II fight he clinched Frazier over 130 times, usually around the neck or pushing down on his neck. Not one warning from the ref.