Fuel to the fire. Johnson admits Langford did in fact for him!

[travestyny]

The Central Trust Company didn't sign off on that check the Equitable Trust Company did.

The Central Trust Company? The certified stamp say $300,000 on it and that's all that can be made out as far as I can see. Stop it. It is a certified check clearly, and you should know what that means as I've just given you the information.


I'm sure Dempsey is smart enough to know how to cash a certified check.

[Willie Pep 229]

The certification stamp means that it is certified. What else do you want? Your angle is going to be that a check that is stamped certified is not certified?

No my opinion is that the Check was certified by the Equitable Trust Company.

[Willie Pep 229]

The Central Trust Company? The certified stamp say $300,000 on it and that's all that can be made out as far as I can see. Stop it. It is a certified check clearly, and you should know what that means as I've just given you the information.


I'm sure Dempsey is smart enough to know how to cash a certified check.

You posted a history of the Chicago National Bank aka The Central Trust Company. Not sure why you did that it had no relation to the Equitable Trust Company that I can see.

[travestyny]

No my opinion is that the Check was certified by the Equitable Trust Company.

You posted a history of the Chicago National Bank aka The Central Trust Company. Not sure why you did that it had no relation to the Equitable Trust Company that I can see.

Jesus Christ, man. So now your angle is to try to convince me that no bank is involved. You take the check to your bank, and cash it. It's not rocket science.

I can't believe you're asking me to do this silly shlt just because you can't accept that this was a certified check. This is beyond desperation. But I'll continue to play your game a little longer.


Go look at the check. Do you see where it says "Chicago Clearing House" right above the "Equitable Trust Company" stamp?


What do you think the "Chicago Clearing House" has to do with?

• BIOGRAPHICAL OR HISTORICAL NOTE The Chicago Clearing House Association was founded in 1865 as a check clearing operation for many of the city's major banks; they maintained this function until the 1920s when the Federal Reserve Bank system took over the function.

https://explore.chicagocollections.o...ry/30/w66b340/

And if that's not enough. Here is something from October, 1926:

tjsgWe.png

Yes, a bank was involved. Now can you stop with this desperation? It's ridiculous. It was a certified check. I'm sure Dempsey would know what to do with it.


Let me add something else, because I have a feeling that's not going to be enough for you:

Key Takeaways. A trust company is a separate corporate entity owned by a bank or other financial institution, law firm, or independent partnership. ... Trust companies perform a wide range of services related to investment and asset management as well as safekeeping services.

I don't even think that's going to be enough, but if you want more you can go searching yourself.

[Willie Pep 229]

Jesus Christ, man. So now your angle is to try to convince me that no bank is involved. You take the check to your bank, and cash it. It's not rocket science.

I can't believe you're asking me to do this silly shlt just because you can't accept that this was a certified check. This is beyond desperation. But I'll continue to play your game a little longer.


Go look at the check. Do you see where it says "Chicago Clearing House" right above the "Equitable Trust Company" stamp?


What do you think the "Chicago Clearing House" has to do with?




And if that's not enough. Here is something from October, 1926:

tjsgWe.png

Yes, a bank was involved. Now can you stop with this desperation? It's ridiculous. It was a certified check. I'm sure Dempsey would know what to do with it.


Let me add something else, because I have a feeling that's not going to be enough for you:



I don't even think that's going to be enough, but if you want more you can go searching yourself.

Start by not insulting me that I don't know these basic terms. You are being rude.

So we agree the check is certified by the Equitable Trust Company. They are holding the the $300k.

So let's go with the check cashing as I said earlier, but this is a trust fund that is only guaranteeing 300k which means the Chicago organization doesn't have a bank backing it. They themselves raised the money and put it in trust ( probably because they knew right or wrong the contract had the stink of the bounced check attached to it.)

Which means they are prepared to cover the 500k how? By finding more backers or with gate receipts ( which us normal)?

Now lets take a look at Dempsey's career between Willard and Tunney II. He fights 7 times for Rickard and once for Fitzsimmons. Each fight goes off where Dempsey gets his guarantee and at times more.

One time Kearns takes Dempsey out of the box and puts the fight in the hands of amateurs (Shelby). The fight is with Gibbons whom your posted survey says was the second most desired fight after Wills with both fighters getting over a 100k votes I believe.

But yet the fight is a financial disaster, dependent on the gate receipts it is mismanaged and dies like a small diseased dog, financially.

So now look at it from Dempsey's point of view his first encounter with Chicago is through Fitz representing some organization that bounced the first check.

Fitz then bails out of the deal and someone sells the contract to the Chicago firm.

Dempsey pulls out of the fight and breaches the contract and takes a deal with Rickard.

You don't think Dempsey was looking at Chicago amd thinking about Shelby? Wondering if this was really going to happen. And now Fitz has walked as well.

The only time he walked away from Rickard/Fitz he got burnt.

Now he had BOTH Rickard and Fitz ( who was connected to Chicago and bailed) leading him away from the fight in Chicago and back safe at home with Rickard.

Why wouldn't he go? The guarantee from the trust Company tells us that they raised 300k of the 800k promised.

Shelby had raised 200k of the 300k they promised and yet didn't deliver the rest becuse they blew the fight.

You don't like me calling them amateurs so how about second shelf promoters who are going to try and pull off a mixed racial bout that Rickard is afraid of and Fitz walked away from.

Too risky, all the certified check tells us us that they don't have a bank backing them and they are going to have to beat the bushes for another 500k in support money or be dependent on the gate receipts.

Too risky with these guys; only Rickard has ever pulled it off and when someone else tried it Dempsey got 65 cents on the dollar.

[travestyny]

Start by not insulting me that I don't know these basic terms. You are being rude.

So we agree the check is certified by the Equitable Trust Company. They are holding the the $300k.

So let's go with the check cashing as I said earlier, but this is a trust fund that is only guaranteeing 300k which means the Chicago organization doesn't have a bank backing it. They themselves raised the money and put it in trust ( probably because they knew right or wrong the contract had the stink of the bounced check attached to it.)

Which means they are prepared to cover the 500k how? By finding more backers or with gate receipts ( which us normal)?

Now lets take a look at Dempsey's career between Willard and Tunney II. He fights 7 times for Rickard and once for Fitzsimmons. Each fight goes off where Dempsey gets his guarantee and at times more.

One time Kearns takes Dempsey out of the box and puts the fight in the hands of amateurs (Shelby). The fight is with Gibbons whom your posted survey says was the second most desired fight after Wills with both fighters getting over a 100k votes I believe.

But yet the fight is a financial disaster, dependent on the gate receipts it is mismanaged and dies like a small diseased dog, financially.

So now look at it from Dempsey's point of view his first encounter with Chicago is through Fitz representing some organization that bounced the first check.

Fitz then bails out of the deal and someone sells the contract to the Chicago firm.

Dempsey pulls out of the fight and breaches the contract and takes a deal with Rickard.

You don't think Dempsey was looking at Chicago amd thinking about Shelby? Wondering if this was really going to happen. And now Fitz has walked as well.

The only time he walked away from Rickard/Fitz he got burnt.

Now he had BOTH Rickard and Fitz ( who was connected to Chicago and bailed) leading him away from the fight in Chicago and back safe at home with Rickard.

Why wouldn't he go? The guarantee from the trust Company tells us that they raised 300k of the 800k promised.

Shelby had raised 200k of the 300k they promised and yet didn't deliver the rest becuse they blew the fight.

You don't like me calling them amateurs so how about second shelf promoters who are going to try and pull off a mixed racial bout that Rickard is afraid of and Fitz walked away from.

Too risky, all the certified check tells us us that they don't have a bank backing them and they are going to have to beat the bushes for another 500k in support money or be dependent on the gate receipts.

Too risky with these guys; only Rickard has ever pulled it off and when someone else tried it Dempsey got 65 cents on the dollar.

Jesus Christ. I'll try to say it one more time so you get it.


First of all, it was you that started with the snarky "you don't know how banks worked before 1930's" comments.

Second, as I've only read your first two lines and realized you still don't understand....I'll say this AGAIN..... and then go back and read the rest of your soliloquy.


The check is NOT certified by the trust company. The Trust Company is the trustee. It is not the bank. The check is CERTIFIED by the BANK. That's what banks do.

There is no way that $300,000, a large sum of money especially back then, would not have a bank behind it. The Trust Company is owned by a bank.

I defined all of these terms for you and thought I made it clear already. Yet you are still, maybe purposely, getting it wrong to try to fit some agenda. You should know by now what "certified" means. You should know what a trust company is. You should know that a bank was involved because I showed you that it clearly says CLEARING HOUSE which has to do with....banks.


If you still can't understand this..you're going to have to go back and read it all over again.


Jesus Christ. As I read more....

Once gain, the Chicago Coliseum Club had NOTHING to do with the bounced check in 1925. That was the South Bend (Indiana) syndicate.


Ok continuing....hopefully this gets better because so far you are just making me repeat myself.


Fitz DID NOT bail out of the deal. He was looking for backers for the bill. First it was the South Bend syndicate. Then after THEY dropped out (from what I hear, over Dempsey wanting cash instead, and his press manager says Dempsey's lawyer was up to some shenanigans to make sure the fight doesn't come off) then Chicago Coliseum Club took their place.

This has nothing to do with Shelby. THat's just more excuses pulled from your butt.


AND FOR THE FINAL TIME. IF THE FIGHT DIDN'T COME OFF FOR ANY REASON, DEMPSEY IS $300,000 RICHER AND FREE TO FIGHT TUNNEY.

Now that I've repeated myself for the umpteenth time, do you understand? If not, I can't help you.

[Willie Pep 229]

Jesus Christ. I'll try to say it one more time so you get it.


First of all, it was you that started with the snarky "you don't know how banks worked before 1930's" comments.

Second, as I've only read your first two lines and realized you still don't understand....I'll say this AGAIN..... and then go back and read the rest of your soliloquy.


The check is NOT certified by the trust company. The Trust Company is the trustee. It is not the bank. The check is CERTIFIED by the BANK. That's what banks do.

There is no way that $300,000, a large sum of money especially back then, would not have a bank behind it. The Trust Company is owned by a bank.

I defined all of these terms for you and thought I made it clear already. Yet you are still, maybe purposely, getting it wrong to try to fit some agenda. You should know by now what "certified" means. You should know what a trust company is. You should know that a bank was involved because I showed you that it clearly says CLEARING HOUSE which has to do with....banks.


If you still can't understand this..you're going to have to go back and read it all over again.


Jesus Christ. As I read more....

Once gain, the Chicago Coliseum Club had NOTHING to do with the bounced check in 1925. That was the South Bend (Indiana) syndicate.


Ok continuing....hopefully this gets better because so far you are just making me repeat myself.


Fitz DID NOT bail out of the deal. He was looking for backers for the bill. First it was the South Bend syndicate. Then after THEY dropped out (from what I hear, over Dempsey wanting cash instead, and his press manager says Dempsey's lawyer was up to some shenanigans to make sure the fight doesn't come off) then Chicago Coliseum Club took their place.

This has nothing to do with Shelby. THat's just more excuses pulled from your butt.


AND FOR THE FINAL TIME. IF THE FIGHT DIDN'T COME OFF FOR ANY REASON, DEMPSEY IS $300,000 RICHER AND FREE TO FIGHT TUNNEY.

Now that I've repeated myself for the umpteenth time, do you understand? If not, I can't help you.

Nope you have it all conveniently wrong. The money is certified with the clearing house by the Trust Company the clearing house is the third party that will pay the money on demand the trust must provide the money.

But that is all irrelevant to my point; my post was based on the check being GOOD and Dempsey cashing it.

And yes Chicago was a different organization than the bounce check but does that really mean anything to Dempsey No!

Yes 300k is a very large sum of money so where wsd the 50ok going to come from ? - the clearing house isn't t going to make good on that, so who is. - the trust -- Shelby promised 300k and came up short by 100k - but Dempsey chose to fight anyway.

I Know Dempsey could keep the money if the fight doesn t come off you keep repeating yourself -- I asked what if the fight does come off and it is a dog how does Dempsey collect the rest? Your trust company is not a bank with it's own reserves and only has what the Chicago outfit puts in it. So please stop making a big deal about it being certified it is only 300k there was no guarantee the 500k would appear. JUST LIKE SHELBY.

But Fitz was involved and then he wasn't it is really that simple and that mattered to Dempsey if not you.

We have an inexperienced promoter working for non promoters so Shebly is a perfect analogy but when you don't have an answer you say things like " like I'm pulling it out of my butt" and I make you repeat yourself" -then you avoid my point and repeat yourself - if you would actually address my comments you wouldn't have to repeat yourself.

But this nonsense is over your certified check which is no big deal because they were still 500k short and no guarantee they could find that money if the fight turns out to be a dog JUST LIKE SHELBY!

So you have us both repeating ourselves so it is time for Sholler Roll to appear and announce your victory.

[travestyny]

Nope you have it all conveniently wrong. The money is certified with the clearing house by the Trust Company the clearing house is the third party that will pay the money on demand the trust must provide the money.

But that is all irrelevant to my point; my post was based on the check being GOOD and Dempsey cashing it.

And yes Chicago was a different organization than the bounce check but does that really mean anything to Dempsey No!

Yes 300k is a very large sum of money so where wsd the 50ok going to come from ? - the clearing house isn't t going to make good on that, so who is. - the trust -- Shelby promised 300k and came up short by 100k - but Dempsey chose to fight anyway.

I Know Dempsey could keep the money if the fight doesn t come off you keep repeating yourself -- I asked what if the fight does come off and it is a dog how does Dempsey collect the rest? Your trust company is not a bank with it's own reserves and only has what the Chicago outfit puts in it. So please stop making a big deal about it being certified it is only 300k there was no guarantee the 500k would appear. JUST LIKE SHELBY.

But Fitz was involved and then he wasn't it is really that simple and that mattered to Dempsey if not you.

We have an inexperienced promoter working for non promoters so Shebly is a perfect analogy but when you don't have an answer you say things like " like I'm pulling it out of my butt" and I make you repeat yourself" -then you avoid my point and repeat yourself - if you would actually address my comments you wouldn't have to repeat yourself.

But this nonsense is over your certified check which is no big deal because they were still 500k short and no guarantee they could find that money if the fight turns out to be a dog JUST LIKE SHELBY!

So you have us both repeating ourselves so it is time for Sholler Roll to appear and announce your victory.

That is NOT what a Clearing House does.

clear·ing·house
/ˈkliriNGˌhous/
noun
noun: clearing house

1. a bankers' establishment where checks and bills from member banks are exchanged, so that only the balances need be paid in cash.

There was indeed a bank involved here. And now that I found the name of the bank, you can stop with your bullshlt.

QlfSsm.png

The Equitable Trust AND SAVINGS BANK.


So that is the bank that CERTIFIED the check. Meanwhile, you are pulling Shelby out of your ass claiming that the fight will bankrupt Chicago....WHERE RICKARD HIMSELF WANTED TO HAVE THE TUNNEY FIGHT.


Give up. It's pathetic. Don't make me go and find quotations from Rickard trying to stage the fight in Chicago.


The $500,000 wasn't due yet as per the contract. You guys were claiming that there wasn't even $300,000, and there it is CERTIFIED. Stop pulling shlt from your ass. Again, even if they couldn't come up with $500,000, Dempsey would have been $300,000 richer AND got money from the Tunney fight.


By the way, are you sure Dempsey was to receive money from moving pictures for the Tunney fight. Just read a quotation from Rickard that says he wasn't.



But go ahead, keep talking about how Doc Krone (biggest promoter in Chicago) and Rickard were going to bankrupt Chicago like Shelby

[billeau2]

The Central Trust Company didn't sign off on that check the Equitable Trust Company did.

Federal Reserve circa 1913 W Wilson.

[GhostofDempsey]

Start by not insulting me that I don't know these basic terms. You are being rude.

So we agree the check is certified by the Equitable Trust Company. They are holding the the $300k.

So let's go with the check cashing as I said earlier, but this is a trust fund that is only guaranteeing 300k which means the Chicago organization doesn't have a bank backing it. They themselves raised the money and put it in trust ( probably because they knew right or wrong the contract had the stink of the bounced check attached to it.)

Which means they are prepared to cover the 500k how? By finding more backers or with gate receipts ( which us normal)?

Now lets take a look at Dempsey's career between Willard and Tunney II. He fights 7 times for Rickard and once for Fitzsimmons. Each fight goes off where Dempsey gets his guarantee and at times more.

One time Kearns takes Dempsey out of the box and puts the fight in the hands of amateurs (Shelby). The fight is with Gibbons whom your posted survey says was the second most desired fight after Wills with both fighters getting over a 100k votes I believe.

But yet the fight is a financial disaster, dependent on the gate receipts it is mismanaged and dies like a small diseased dog, financially.

So now look at it from Dempsey's point of view his first encounter with Chicago is through Fitz representing some organization that bounced the first check.

Fitz then bails out of the deal and someone sells the contract to the Chicago firm.

Dempsey pulls out of the fight and breaches the contract and takes a deal with Rickard.

You don't think Dempsey was looking at Chicago amd thinking about Shelby? Wondering if this was really going to happen. And now Fitz has walked as well.

The only time he walked away from Rickard/Fitz he got burnt.

Now he had BOTH Rickard and Fitz ( who was connected to Chicago and bailed) leading him away from the fight in Chicago and back safe at home with Rickard.

Why wouldn't he go? The guarantee from the trust Company tells us that they raised 300k of the 800k promised.

Shelby had raised 200k of the 300k they promised and yet didn't deliver the rest becuse they blew the fight.

You don't like me calling them amateurs so how about second shelf promoters who are going to try and pull off a mixed racial bout that Rickard is afraid of and Fitz walked away from.

Too risky, all the certified check tells us us that they don't have a bank backing them and they are going to have to beat the bushes for another 500k in support money or be dependent on the gate receipts.

Too risky with these guys; only Rickard has ever pulled it off and when someone else tried it Dempsey got 65 cents on the dollar.

This is why the court refused to award plaintiff for lost profits. They could not prove how they could raise or earn $3M with a net profit of $1.6M. Wills couldn’t get Fitz or anyone else to cover Dempsey’s $25K advance just a year prior (it was actually $125K he demanded but offered to accept $25K cash).

Proposition 1. Plaintiff offered to prove by one Mullins that a boxing exhibition between Dempsey and Wills held in the City of Chicago on September 22, 1926, would bring a gross receipt of $3,000,000, and that the expense incurred would be $1,400,000, leaving a net profit to the promoter of $1,600,000. The court properly sustained an objection to this testimony. The character of the undertaking was such that it would be impossible to produce evidence of a probative character sufficient to establish any amount which could be reasonably ascertainable by reason of the character of the undertaking. The profits from a boxing contest of this character, open to the public, is dependent upon so many different circumstances that they are not susceptible of definite legal determination. The success or failure of such an undertaking depends largely upon the ability of the promoters, the reputation of the contestants and the conditions of the weather at and prior to the holding of the contest, the accessibility of the place, the extent of the publicity, the possibility of other and counter attractions and many other questions which would enter into consideration. Such an entertainment lacks utterly the element of stability which exists in regular organized business. This fact was practically admitted by the plaintiff by the allegation of its bill filed in the Marion county court of Indiana asking for an injunction against Dempsey. Plaintiff in its bill in that proceeding charged, as follows:

"That by virtue of the premises aforesaid, the plaintiff will, unless it secures the injunctive relief herein prayed for, suffer great and irreparable injury and damages, not compensable by any action at law in damages, the damages being incapable of commensuration, and plaintiff, therefore, has no adequate remedy at law."

Compensation for damages for a breach of contract must be established by evidence from which a court or jury are able to ascertain the extent of such damages by the usual rules of evidence and to a reasonable degree of certainty. We are of the opinion that the performance in question is not susceptible of proof sufficient to satisfy the requirements and that the damages, if any, are purely speculative. Favar v. Riverview Park, 144 Ill. App. 86; Broadway Photoplay Co. v. World Film Corp., 225 N.Y. 104; Wooldridge v. Shea, 175 N.Y.S. 130; Bernstein v. Meech, 130 N.Y. 354.