Fuel to the fire. Johnson admits Langford did in fact for him!

[travestyny]

To add to the end of the story Fitz then got himself out of the Chicago deal and ends up in Dempsey's camp as his PR guy.

Fitz and Dempsey went way back as friends. After the Miske fight Dempsey bought Fitz's wife a 14K car as a gift. This is at a time when a Model T went for 650.

My conjecture is that when those checks bounce Fitz realized the Chicago people couldn't be trusted for the money and both he and Dempsry walked away.

As I said he appears later in Dempaey's camp for the Tunney fight.

Absolute BS. The contract stated that Dempsey gets $300,000 for no services if the fight didn't come off. The money was proven to be there in accordance with the contract. If Dempsey wanted the fight, he wouldn't have walked away before the first payment was to be made. He was protected by the tune of $300,000 if the promoters fumbled.

[GhostofDempsey]

We know the NY offer was BS. No date, no venue. Nothing but games.

It glances over 1923 when Montreal was in the mix and Dempsey decided he couldn't get into shape. Rickard apparently was down with that offer.

Then the Fitz offer where apparently Fitz fumbled, and a member of Dempsey's team walked out over this fumble saying that someone was playing games. Though he didn't think it was Fitz. Fitz, funny enough, claimed the guy didn't know what he was talking about...though the guy didn't even implicate Fitz in the fumble. Very su****ious.

Then Fitz passed to the Chicago Coliseum Club which kept their side of the bargain, and Dempsey walked out on the contract.

It's easy in 2021 to look back and say "we all know the NY offer was BS". Back then, offers came in from all over for Dempsey fights. Money talks, and when it isn't delivered Dempsey isn't fighting for promissory notes. Johnson insisted on $50K if he were to accept a challenge, with an additional $20K side bet money up front. Money in hand. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Willie Pep 229]

To add to the end of the story Fitz then got himself out of the Chicago deal and ends up in Dempsey's camp as his PR guy.

Fitz and Dempsey went way back as friends. After the Miske fight Dempsey bought Fitz's wife a 14K car as a gift. This is at a time when a Model T went for 650.

My conjecture is that when those checks bounce Fitz realized the Chicago people couldn't be trusted for the money and both he and Dempsry walked away.

As I said he appears later in Dempaey's camp for the Tunney fight.

I didn't say they couldn't come up with he money I said my conjecture is that when the check bounced Fitz and Dempsey conspired to get out of the deal. That's why I keep pointing to Dempsey and Fitz's friendship. I believe they acted in concert . You don't buy a guy's wife a 13K car if you ain't close friends. It is funny that Dempsey doesn't publicly breach the Chicago contract until Fitz makes whatever get-out deal he does with Chicago first, then Dempsey walks.

I didn't say they couldn't pay, I said they lost faith and walked; or ran back to Rickard.

Funny but you posted an article where the MSG Sporting Club called Dempsey out for not being faithful to Rickard, saying he owed Rickard. Was it possible he was just keeping the faith you and MSG said he owed Rickard?

[GhostofDempsey]

Absolute BS. The contract stated that Dempsey gets $300,000 for no services if the fight didn't come off. The money was proven to be there in accordance with the contract. If Dempsey wanted the fight, he wouldn't have walked away before the first payment was to be made. He was protected by the tune of $300,000 if the promoters fumbled.

Fitz couldn't come up with the $25K Dempsey demanded up front. Check bounced, then Dempsey bounced. Johnson would have done the same.

[travestyny]

It's easy in 2021 to look back and say "we all know the NY offer was BS". Back then, offers came in from all over for Dempsey fights. Money talks, and when it isn't delivered Dempsey isn't fighting for promissory notes. Johnson insisted on $50K if he were to accept a challenge, with an additional $20K side bet money up front. Money in hand. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Well if that Montreal offer happened within the time of that NY contract, which your link makes it seem like it does, that would be pretty telling, being that Dempsey declined that offer. Wouldn't it?

Johnson also signed for fights, like the Jennette offer that was sent to the commission with a date and venue. But some people even try to blame him for that.

[travestyny]

Fitz couldn't come up with the $25K Dempsey demanded up front. Check bounced, then Dempsey bounced. Johnson would have done the same.

He didn't bounce. He signed a contract with the Chicago Coliseum Club and then ran away from $800,000. More than the Tunney fight guarantee.

[ShoulderRoll]

Go ahead and check my post history. I've never said anything negative about blacks. In fact, just the opposite. Be sure and check all of my history for context, not just cherry picking like your idol Floyd.

You keep repeating the Johnson fought McVey, Jeannette, nonsense. Meanwhile you bashed Jeffries for fighting "smaller men"...that is exactly what Johnson's best wins were, against SMALLER men. The ones you keep naming were also far less experienced. You're a hypocrite to say the least.

The relevancy of Jeannette, McVea, and Langford to this whole argument is that they were black. Not that they were smaller men which is a separate issue entirely, as is Jeffries.

That's what has got the bee in your bonnett--Dempsey's resume was criticized and his avoidance of black fighters got brought up.

Then in a misguided attempt to deflect you tried to draw an equivalency to Jack Johnson.

But Johnson can never be tarred with that same brush because HE FOUGHT BLACK FIGHTERS. You can never change that. If I keep repeating this it's because you need to get it through your thick head.

This topic had been left to rest for weeks until you decided to revive it. Don't complain now if people are responding.

[travestyny]

I didn't say they couldn't come up with he money I said my conjecture is that when the check bounced Fitz and Dempsey conspired to get out of the deal. That's why I keep pointing to Dempsey and Fitz's friendship. I believe they acted in concert . You don't buy a guy's wife a 13K car if you ain't close friends. It is funny that Dempsey doesn't publicly breach the Chicago contract until Fitz makes whatever get-out deal he does with Chicago first, then Dempsey walks.

I didn't say they couldn't pay, I said they lost faith and walked; or ran back to Rickard.

Funny but you posted an article where the MSG Sporting Club called Dempsey out for not being faithful to Rickard, saying he owed Rickard. Was it possible he was just keeping the faith you and MSG said he owed Rickard?

Oh I believe they conspired alright. lol. Conspired not to fight Harry Wills.

How was he being faithful to MSG when they also wanted him to fight Harry Wills and wound up barring him because he refused to? lol

[GhostofDempsey]

Well if that Montreal offer happened within the time of that NY contract, which your link makes it seem like it does, that would be pretty telling, being that Dempsey declined that offer. Wouldn't it?

Johnson also signed for fights, like the Jennette offer that was sent to the commission with a date and venue. But some people even try to blame him for that.

Johnson had other offers and opportunities, Johnson declined them. Moved goal posts and demanded more money. Insisted there was no money in fighting black fighters, which was a lie. We know he was prone to lying given the big lie that he threw the Willard fight.

[GhostofDempsey]

The relevancy of Jeannette, McVea, and Langford to this whole argument is that they were black. Not that they were smaller men which is a separate issue entirely, as is Jeffries.

That's what has got the bee in your bonnett--Dempsey's resume was criticized and his avoidance of black fighters got brought up.

Then in a misguided attempt to deflect you tried to draw an equivalency to Jack Johnson.

But Johnson can never be tarred with that same brush because HE FOUGHT BLACK FIGHTERS. You can never change that. If I keep repeating this it's because you need to get it through your thick head.

This topic had been left to rest for weeks until you decided to revive it. Don't complain now if people are responding.

The topic wasn't left to rest for weeks. It was only a few days since your last post. Unless you live in dog years and time somehow exists in a different parallel for you.

Being black doesn't make them better fighters. Johnson fought black fighters because he was black, and it was an easier path to a paycheck. The argument you make for him fighting Jeannette, McVey and Langford is weak. They were inexperienced, far younger and considerably smaller. He never got around to fighting them once they all hit their prime. Each of them attests to that fact. They were denied their rightful shot. Johnson insists he wouldn't fight them because there was no money in fighting a black fighter, yet he fought Battling Jim Johnson, who was less of a draw than the other three!

Dempsey's resume as champion is no worse than Johnson's.

This thread is about Johnson, so there was no deflection here. In fact, this thread was hijacked and turned into another Dempsey hate thread by the usual suspect.