Fuel to the fire. Johnson admits Langford did in fact for him!

[GhostofDempsey]

I struck a nerve I see.

If you didn't want my attention you shouldn't have tagged or quoted me in one of your diatribes.

You can try to make this about Floyd somehow but the fact remains that those were Jimmy DeForest's own words and Gene Tunney's own su****ions.

I was banned for comments about the Rothschilds. The axe I have to grind against them has zero to do with ***s or ******* so I fail to see how that was anti-Semitic.

Your entire existence here is about antagonizing. To the extent you have several alts from which you do this. We aren’t ******.

Now you’re suddenly worried about a thread being on topic? Who made this thread about Dempsey? Just like every other non-Dempsey thread? It was supposed to be about Johnson, remember? If Dempsey is fair game, so is Mr. IV Floyd the drug cheat and his special Mexican medicine for his hands.

I’ll take the word of all of the witnesses who examined Dempsey’s wraps, to include the ref, doctor, and Willard himself, over senile DeForest who may have been either mistaken or salty about being replaced. What’s Floyd’s excuse?

You carry about ***s with Chollo. Blaming them for hip hop culture and the negative influence of rap among other things. Call me all the names you want, I was never banned for racism or for any other reason. Unless you are saying mods are biased. Is that it?

[ShoulderRoll]

Your entire existence here is about antagonizing. To the extent you have several alts from which you do this. We aren’t ******.

Now you’re suddenly worried about a thread being on topic? Who made this thread about Dempsey? Just like every other non-Dempsey thread? It was supposed to be about Johnson, remember? If Dempsey is fair game, so is Mr. IV Floyd the drug cheat and his special Mexican medicine for his hands.

I’ll take the word of all of the witnesses who examined Dempsey’s wraps, to include the ref, doctor, and Willard himself, over senile DeForest who may have been either mistaken or salty about being replaced. What’s Floyd’s excuse?

You carry about ***s with Chollo. Blaming them for hip hop culture and the negative influence of rap among other things. Call me all the names you want, I was never banned for racism or for any other reason. Unless you are saying mods are biased. Is that it?

One only has to peruse your post history in the Lounge to see that you feel some kind of way towards black people.

You're welcome to provide proof of my "alts" if you have any. But you don't, just like you don't provide much proof in these historical discussions. Which is why your arguments get easily debunked.

Jack Johnson fought McVea, Langford, and Jeannette. It's known to the historical record how his skills measured up against theirs.

[travestyny]

How are hand wraps going to cut an opponent’s face to ribbons encased within 5 oz horse hair filled gloves? The padding of the gloves is already very hard vs modern gloves. What mechanism allows the wrapping to inflict even worse damage? Makes no sense whatsoever. The wrapping would be below at least 1.5 inches of padded glove.

Hard wrapping however would not be far removed from a fighters knuckles which would be where the most damage would be done. A fighter would be less apt to throw a blow with all his might.

Dempsey is sitting in his corner casually without gloves allowing up close photos of his wrapped hands prior to his bout with Willard. If something illegal was going on no one was acting like it.

Willard had his ear "ripped off" from hardened wraps, and the man who did (Gunboat Smith) admit it was because he wore insulation tape over his wraps. Was that strictly speaking illegal? I don't think so. Was it unfair? I would say so. Did it do damage from under the gloves? Sounds like it.

When Willard spoke about having been up against slugs in his career prior to facing Dempsey, he was telling the truth. In 1913, Willard lost a 20-round decision to Gunboat Smith in a bout where Willard’s ear was shredded. Years later, Smith would tell Peter Heller just how Willard sustained such a grievous wound. “So in the tenth round I hit him with one of my right hands, but it was on the ear. Tore his ear right off. That hushed him up for the rest of the fight. The blood was running down, and oh God, I, of course, had my gloves ‘loaded.’ I had insulation tape laid across my hands.”

Also interesting that Smith chooses the word, "loaded."


Once again, it wasn't illegal. And once again, it wouldn't be noticed by just looking at the wraps. That was the whole point. They could get away with it (not strictly illegal, but referred to as "a trick" because the sneaky thing that is done would be unnoticed).

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record here.

[travestyny]

I’ll take the word of all of the witnesses who examined Dempsey’s wraps, to include the ref, doctor, and Willard himself, over senile DeForest

Imagine if I would have called Joe Jennette punch drunk when he said Johnson never agreed to give him a shot at the title. You would have had a field day!


Just for the record, ShoulderRoll doesn't follow me around cheerleading. He has his own opinions. We don't agree on every issue, but we are able to talk about them without being at each other's throats and it's all good. I've always thought of him as one of the best posters here.


As for what Floyd does with his hands, the commission was always well aware of what he did with his hand. Margaret Goodman ( I think that's her name...head of VADA now, but then part of the Nevada commission I believe) was in the video they ran before one of his fights that discussed his hand problems and how he was dealing with them.

[GhostofDempsey]

One only has to peruse your post history in the Lounge to see that you feel some kind of way towards black people.

You're welcome to provide proof of my "alts" if you have any. But you don't, just like you don't provide much proof in these historical discussions. Which is why your arguments get easily debunked.

Jack Johnson fought McVea, Langford, and Jeannette. It's known to the historical record how his skills measured up against theirs.

Go ahead and check my post history. I've never said anything negative about blacks. In fact, just the opposite. Be sure and check all of my history for context, not just cherry picking like your idol Floyd.

You keep repeating the Johnson fought McVey, Jeannette, nonsense. Meanwhile you bashed Jeffries for fighting "smaller men"...that is exactly what Johnson's best wins were, against SMALLER men. The ones you keep naming were also far less experienced. You're a hypocrite to say the least.

[GhostofDempsey]

Imagine if I would have called Joe Jennette punch drunk when he said Johnson never agreed to give him a shot at the title. You would have had a field day!


Just for the record, ShoulderRoll doesn't follow me around cheerleading. He has his own opinions. We don't agree on every issue, but we are able to talk about them without being at each other's throats and it's all good. I've always thought of him as one of the best posters here.


As for what Floyd does with his hands, the commission was always well aware of what he did with his hand. Margaret Goodman ( I think that's her name...head of VADA now, but then part of the Nevada commission I believe) was in the video they ran before one of his fights that discussed his hand problems and how he was dealing with them.

You call Jeannette a liar, which is even worse. You are the not the matter of record. Shoulderroll likes to slip into the end of each thread to get the final word, which is often nothing more than regurgitating everything you said.

So what was in Floyd's secret Mexican medicine? I see you back on the Pac/Floyd investigation thread in the never-ending argument. So three years and 400 pages wasn't enough? Imagine if you could use that one on Dempsey or any other fighter who you bash 24/7.

[travestyny]

You call Jeannette a liar, which is even worse. You are the not the matter of record. Shoulderroll likes to slip into the end of each thread to get the final word, which is often nothing more than regurgitating everything you said.

So what was in Floyd's secret Mexican medicine? I see you back on the Pac/Floyd investigation thread in the never-ending argument. So three years and 400 pages wasn't enough? Imagine if you could use that one on Dempsey or any other fighter who you bash 24/7.

To be clear, what I mean is that if Jennette said he never agreed to fight him for the title, that is a lie just by matter of fact. If that seems too harsh, then let's just say he is "mistaken."

But men lie. I don't see how that is so harsh, but then saying someone is senile out of nowhere is so much better. lol


What does it have to do with you where I post? I don't know why that bothers you. What's in his Mexican medicine? Who knows? Maybe it's tiger balm. Certainly nothing that came up in the over 300 tests that he passed, and nothing that any commission had a problem with


I also don't think I've bashed Dempsey. I've just revealed some things that apparently you would prefer be kept hidden from people. This is the history section. There's nothing wrong with exploring evidence that lends toward unveiling the truth.

[GhostofDempsey]

To be clear, what I mean is that if Jennette said he never agreed to fight him for the title, that is a lie just by matter of fact. If that seems too harsh, then let's just say he is "mistaken."

But men lie. I don't see how that is so harsh, but then saying someone is senile out of nowhere is so much better. lol


What does it have to do with you where I post? I don't know why that bothers you. What's in his Mexican medicine? Who knows? Maybe it's tiger balm. Certainly nothing that came up in the over 300 tests that he passed, and nothing that any commission had a problem with


I also don't think I've bashed Dempsey. I've just revealed some things that apparently you would prefer be kept hidden from people. This is the history section. There's nothing wrong with exploring evidence that lends toward unveiling the truth.

You haven't proven anything beyond a shadow of a doubt about Dempsey. You have repeatedly hinged your beliefs to one-sided sources while dismissing all others. It's been going on for almost four years now. Wash, rinse, repeat.

No, it's not a lie. Not when Jeannette, McVey, and Langford collectively agree that Johnson never gave them a legitimate title shot while he was champion. There is plenty of evidence to support that, and again, the news clippings or biased testimony from one man's promoter doesn't prove a thing. You seem to think that you can prove something that happened 100 years ago when you cannot even prove something that happened or didn't happen in 2015.

Tiger balm??? Yeah ok. If any of Floyd's opponents were using some secret Mexican medicine that their trainer refused to reveal he would call off the fight! For the Pacquiao fight, Floyd had someone else wrap his hands. Guy named Bob Ware. He uses what he calls "more advanced sources" for materials used in gauze and tape. Ware will not reveal his "secrets". When asked by the media where he sources his gauze, he refuses to answer. When asked what made the cloth so special...he claims the cloth is a "conforming gauze"....WTF does that mean!?

[travestyny]

You haven't proven anything beyond a shadow of a doubt about Dempsey. You have repeatedly hinged your beliefs to one-sided sources while dismissing all others. It's been going on for almost four years now. Wash, rinse, repeat.

No, it's not a lie. Not when Jeannette, McVey, and Langford collectively agree that Johnson never gave them a legitimate title shot while he was champion. There is plenty of evidence to support that, and again, the news clippings or biased testimony from one man's promoter doesn't prove a thing. You seem to think that you can prove something that happened 100 years ago when you cannot even prove something that happened or didn't happen in 2015.

Tiger balm??? Yeah ok. If any of Floyd's opponents were using some secret Mexican medicine that their trainer refused to reveal he would call off the fight! For the Pacquiao fight, Floyd had someone else wrap his hands. Guy named Bob Ware. He uses what he calls "more advanced sources" for materials used in gauze and tape. Ware will not reveal his "secrets". When asked by the media where he sources his gauze, he refuses to answer. When asked what made the cloth so special...he claims the cloth is a "conforming gauze"....WTF does that mean!?

So what you're saying is that Jennette fight wasn't for the title. Let's see your evidence.


And you're saying that Dempsey didn't break a contract to fight Wills? That can easily be proven. I also know whose most likely to tell us the truth about Dempsey's wraps. That would be the man who did the wrapping. Let's see your proof that he was senile.


The Pacquiao fight? Roach was in the dressing room talking about the wraps with the commission. So obviously there was no issue there. Let me remind you, this was not in the time where you could use a "trick of the trade" with bicycle tape. As for the Mexican medicine, I've already mentioned there were over 300 drug tests at WADA approved labs. I don't see the issue.


There's a big difference between protecting your hands and wearing wraps to cause "unusual punishment," isn't there? I certainly think so.

[GhostofDempsey]

So what you're saying is that Jennette fight wasn't for the title. Let's see your evidence.


And you're saying that Dempsey didn't break a contract to fight Wills? That can easily be proven. I also know whose most likely to tell us the truth about Dempsey's wraps. That would be the man who did the wrapping. Let's see your proof that he was senile.


The Pacquiao fight? Roach was in the dressing room talking about the wraps with the commission. So obviously there was no issue there. Let me remind you, this was not in the time where you could use a "trick of the trade" with bicycle tape. As for the Mexican medicine, I've already mentioned there were over 300 drug tests at WADA approved labs. I don't see the issue.

I already proved to my satisfaction that Dempsey agreed to fight Wills on at least two occasions. Back while Wills was still prime. By '26 Wills played himself. Ducked Tunney for his biggest payday ever only to get worked over by Sharkey. Dempsey would have mauled him in '26 but got a better deal for Tunney, who was a much tougher fight. I'll trust the dozen or so witnesses who watched Dempsey's hands wrapped, to include Willard who inspected them right before the gloves went on.

Very convenient that you can say Floyd never did anything illegal with his wraps or hands, while thinking you have irrefutable proof that Dempsey did, when even if he did have bicycle tape on his hands (which he likely did not), it was perfectly legal. You have spent hundreds of pages trying to discredit Dempsey over something that was perfectly legal in the first place. Yet claim you don't bash Dempsey. You call him a liar and a coward and a cheat, but you're not bashing him. Okay, this is why I call you a psychotic. The way you latch onto a topic and refuse to concede, post the same sources you keep on a file on your computer, along with years-old screenshots of members posts. You're behavior discourages good posters from posting because they get tired of running in circles arguing the same nonsense. You get a few of your fellow cheerleaders to pat you on the back and declare you a "winner", whatever that means, and you think you schooled everyone with 100 year old news clippings.

Believe what you want. Floyd has been under a cloud of su****ion for over a decade. Xylocaine usage being sealed, secret Mexican medicine used on his hands, secret "conforming" gauze, etc. Roach insisted Floyd's hands were wrapped too thick. Floyd had the USADA in his pocket--granted a two week exception after he already used an illegal IV, along with the corrupt NSAC. That's why he wouldn't fight outside of Vegas.