Wladimir Klitschko

[LondonRingRules]

i have a problem with the way his fights our set up recently he fought Hasim Rahman only givin him 2 weeks to train and then he had to fly to Germany to fight?

** The problem ain't Wlad, it's that you don't understand the fight and venue set up many months in advance. His opponent, Povetkin, fell out due to injury.

Rahman a long time very active professional fighter was immediately mentioned as one of the favs for replacement, almost 6 weeks before the fight. It ain't never been easy negotiating terms for title fights, but that's how long it took.

Rahman had plenty of time to prepare.

[tunayflip]

** The problem ain't Wlad, it's that you don't understand the fight and venue set up many months in advance. His opponent, Povetkin, fell out due to injury.

Rahman a long time very active professional fighter was immediately mentioned as one of the favs for replacement, almost 6 weeks before the fight. It ain't never been easy negotiating terms for title fights, but that's how long it took.

Rahman had plenty of time to prepare.

I know that wasn't Wlad fault it was Rahmans i jus don't like that fact that he tends to fight the smaller heavyweights when should be fightin the other titleholders cuz if you look at it right now there aren't really any good heavyweight fights except for a fight against the other belt holders which Wlad his fault but it keeps him from being as great a fighter as past heavyweight champs.

[Hawkins]

** Need get your mama to change out that dim bulb the next time she swaps out your diapers sonnyboy.

Ike was a touted Foreman like contender, 19-0 against 26-0 Byrd. Ike had previously beat the heavily touted 27-0 Tua in a record setting heavyweight bout now of legendary status. Helluva lot more proven than young Clay with the same record, blasted out of his skull by a little journeyman who had to wear ankle weights to make the heavy limit and then arguably outclassed and out slugged by another smallish LH barely making the heavy limit on the eve of his title challenge.

Like I say junior, Sonny never beat another top heavy after the ill fated Patterson series that convinced him he only needed to train for 6 rds. 40 yr old Sonny to be run into circles until his collapses without Byrd needing to lay a glove on him.

Tua was ranked what number 8 at the time Ike beat him? Tua had yet to face anyone of quality, or anyone that was ranked, when he fought Ike.

Byrd wasn't even ranked and had to face anyone of any substance when he got blasted by Ike. So yes, Ike was unproven... tons of potential but unproven against the elite of the day.

As far as Ike being 'more proven' at 19-0 than Ali... most will beg to differ. At 19-0 Ali defeated Doug Jones (highly rated contender..#2 or 3 at the time), and Henry Cooper and Archie Moore. Both Cooper and Moore were rated and an old Archie Moore is more dangerous than anyone on Ike's record at the time.

With your heavy disdain for alot of older fighters, in regards to the pretenders of today, I'm starting to think that the 60's-70's fighters must have lined up and ran a train on your girl. Otherwise most of your venom is misplaced.

Regardless either make your claim that Wlad has any win, or combination of wins, that equal Ali's win over Foreman or drop it. That was your point of contention and you have yet to come anywhere near presenting a case for that point.

[LondonRingRules]

As far as Ike being 'more proven' at 19-0 than Ali... most will beg to differ. At 19-0 Ali defeated Doug Jones (highly rated contender..#2 or 3 at the time), and Henry Cooper and Archie Moore. Both Cooper and Moore were rated and an old Archie Moore is more dangerous than anyone on Ike's record at the time.

With your heavy disdain for alot of older fighters, in regards to the pretenders of today, I'm starting to think

** You just now starting to think with your first little 8th grade glimmer eh?

I have no disdain for Doug Jones who was a fine era fighter, but praytellus who he ever beat to get ranked 2-3? The only wins of note prior to young Clay are some close scraps with Von Clay, was that young Cassius ranked half brother?

Then he beats former early 50s middle champ Bobo Olson and Pete Rademacher. Wow, 180 lb Dougie would've been a real ferocious mouse in the 90s, scampering about with Ike, Tua, Golota, Morrison, Bowe, Foreman, McCline, Tyson, UnHolyField, Briggs, McCall, Tyson, Mercer, Byrd, The Klitschkos.

Dropped 3 in a row to Machen, Harold Johnson and Folley, but wait, there's more, he beat a green 9-0 LH named Bob Foster and KOed Folley in the rematch. So, going into the Ali bout, on boxrec his comp bar would read 2-3-1over his last 6 fights and ranked 2 or 3 now, eh? Guess Rademacher was moved back to 3rd or 4th eh?

Musta had some of that Popkins mojo that sees him going 3-3 in his last 6 fights with only a single win over a legit LH, yet 3rd p4p and #1 in "his" LH division. Yeah, that ol' Pop's mojo, that's it.

50 yr old Archie Moore a threat? The same old man Rocky gets pounded for fighting the previous decade?

Look, Ol'Mongoose one of my favs, but at 50, if you can't see how ridiculous this looks, it's akin to a great historian trying to talk world history to Ronald McDonald.

Got me thinkin' though, how do you think it would've gone down, 40 yr old Ali against 50 yr ol'Mongoose.

Would the winner be ranked #1 most dangerous heavy of the 90s? Yupper, in the cartoon world according to Hawkins, the earth would have been knocked off it's axis, the moon wobbled and Superman's cape blown off in such a fight.

[Hawkins]

** You just now starting to think with your first little 8th grade glimmer eh?

I wish you would actually think, it would end alot of the ridiculousness that spews forth from that shriveled up brain of yours.

I have no disdain for Doug Jones who was a fine era fighter, but praytellus who he ever beat to get ranked 2-3? The only wins of note prior to young Clay are some close scraps with Von Clay, was that young Cassius ranked half brother?

Then he beats former early 50s middle champ Bobo Olson and Pete Rademacher. Wow, 180 lb Dougie would've been a real ferocious mouse in the 90s, scampering about with Ike, Tua, Golota, Morrison, Bowe, Foreman, McCline, Tyson, UnHolyField, Briggs, McCall, Tyson, Mercer, Byrd, The Klitschkos.

Dropped 3 in a row to Machen, Harold Johnson and Folley, but wait, there's more, he beat a green 9-0 LH named Bob Foster and KOed Folley in the rematch. So, going into the Ali bout, on boxrec his comp bar would read 2-3-1over his last 6 fights and ranked 2 or 3 now, eh? Guess Rademacher was moved back to 3rd or 4th eh?

Musta had some of that Popkins mojo that sees him going 3-3 in his last 6 fights with only a single win over a legit LH, yet 3rd p4p and #1 in "his" LH division. Yeah, that ol' Pop's mojo, that's it.

50 yr old Archie Moore a threat? The same old man Rocky gets pounded for fighting the previous decade?

Look, Ol'Mongoose one of my favs, but at 50, if you can't see how ridiculous this looks, it's akin to a great historian trying to talk world history to Ronald McDonald.

Got me thinkin' though, how do you think it would've gone down, 40 yr old Ali against 50 yr ol'Mongoose.

Would the winner be ranked #1 most dangerous heavy of the 90s? Yupper, in the cartoon world according to Hawkins, the earth would have been knocked off it's axis, the moon wobbled and Superman's cape blown off in such a fight.

Coming into the Ibeabuchi fight 4 of the last 7 of Byrd's opponents were Ross Puritty, Jimmy Thunder, Frankie Swindell and Bert Cooper. Bert Cooper was 2-3 in his fights up to Byrd, Frankie Swindell was 3-4, Jimmy Thunder was 1-2, with a loss to John Ruiz of all people and Ross Puritty was 0-2, with losses to Larry Donald and Corrie Sanders.

Kinda shoots holes all thru your assertion that the Byrd win shows Ike as a "proven commodity". You STILL have yet to make any kind of argument that Wlad has any kind of win that remotely measures up to Ali's win over Foreman.

And do you know why?

Because you can't.

[GJC]

** Sunny Jim, it goes like this:

With back to back wins over Johnny Summerlin, entering the flower of his physical prime and in obvious ascendency, yup, near prime.

Certainly much closer to prime than when Wlad was upset by Puritty who was only something like 60 lbs and a half foot taller than little Monte Marty Maybelle Marshall to reorient the discussion to the thread header.

5 yrs later Sonny's entering his peak, only delayed by legal problems and lack of opportunity.

You wouldn't say Liston was in his prime from 1959 to 1962 then?
Liston is one year into his pro career with 7 fights under his belt, Puritty was Wlad's 25th fight 2 years into his pro career. When you say re-orientating back to the thread header that would be that Ali was a small heavyweight and because Wlad is bigger he is bound to beat Ali?

[StarshipTrooper]

I wish you would actually think, it would end alot of the ridiculousness that spews forth from that shriveled up brain of yours.



Coming into the Ibeabuchi fight 4 of the last 7 of Byrd's opponents were Ross Puritty, Jimmy Thunder, Frankie Swindell and Bert Cooper. Bert Cooper was 2-3 in his fights up to Byrd, Frankie Swindell was 3-4, Jimmy Thunder was 1-2, with a loss to John Ruiz of all people and Ross Puritty was 0-2, with losses to Larry Donald and Corrie Sanders.

Kinda shoots holes all thru your assertion that the Byrd win shows Ike as a "proven commodity". You STILL have yet to make any kind of argument that Wlad has any kind of win that remotely measures up to Ali's win over Foreman.

And do you know why?

Because you can't.

Don't worry: He'll pull SOMETHING out of his ass I'm sure (and, no doubt, it will be indistinguishable from feces). Carry on!

Poet

[MrChicagoBears]

Don't worry: He'll pull SOMETHING out of his ass I'm sure (and, no doubt, it will be indistinguishable from feces). Carry on!

Poet

agreed poet, knowing LRR he will comeback writing his big articles and using his comments and words that dont make a blind bit of sense!

trying to confuse people with science.

he hates ali that much, he is trying to make out wlad has fought better fighters. unbelivable!

[LondonRingRules]

You wouldn't say Liston was in his prime from 1959 to 1962 then?
Liston is one year into his pro career with 7 fights under his belt, Puritty was Wlad's 25th fight 2 years into his pro career. When you say re-orientating back to the thread header that would be that Ali was a small heavyweight and because Wlad is bigger he is bound to beat Ali?

** What kind of "When did you stop beating your wife?" questions are those?

I said he was near prime for his Marshall defeat due to him being IN his physical prime and starting to enter his boxing prime with back to back wins over Summerlin. What part of near prime don't you understand?

Wlad was only 22 when he lost to Puritty, not a traditional prime age for big heavies. As I mentioned, it was down to bad management with that being his 25th fight coming off his first 2 years and just 3 weeks after his last fight. A 12 rounder against a massive, strong, very durable journeyman who's fought all the big names in the heavy ranks. Wlad was skinny, overworked and overtrained for the fight and had never been near 12 rds before. He was winning the shutout over 10. Very poor management and corner work. Fight not disimilar to Cooney falling apart in the 13th against Holmes without taking any punches. Boom, no more steam left.

Ali had never been past 10 rds in his life until he potshotted the sick Patterson around the ring in his 2nd defense. Biggest guy he'd been in the ring against was 225lb Duke Sabedong who was none to impressed with Ali and took him the 10 rd distance. Love to see that fight.

Ali vs Wlad would be great, but who wins depends on which version of each turns up. Ali more inconsistant than Wlad. Wlad would've handled all of Ali's opposition and schedule pretty easy up until Frazier. Guys like Banks and Cooper wouldn't be knocking him down and he'd KO Jones. Wlad also handled Byrd quite easily, a small, very quick and elusive heavy like Ali.

I don't see anyone on Wlad's schedule who would trouble young Clay until Byrd whom I would pick to beat him because of the Mildenberger performance in his prime. Byrd much trickier southpaw with more credentials. Shultz and Barrett were prime solid contenders and would've been good scraps.

I question whether Ali could maintain that early pace of Wlad's schedule that gives Wlad a fight every month for 2 yrs against fighters much bigger and stronger than Ali used to facing. If he has an off day against Banks, Cooper, and Jones, much easier to come back against a 180 lber than a 240lber.

As to the other ninny claiming Byrd had no credentials, well, he was a storied amateur and Olympic middleweight silver medalist whom nobody wanted to fight because of his style. Going into Ike, his last six opponents record avg was 24-9, including the massive Puritty who's ended up being on most heavy contender records, former title contender Cooper who was just as hot and cold and relevant as he was against UnHoly, and the unbeaten prospect Eliser Castillo.

Byrd had also shut out Phil Jackson who contended for Lewis's title the year before.

Say what you will about Ike, Tua, and Byrd, but this in the day when young contenders weren't afraid to fight each other or anyone who dared step into the ring with them.

[StarshipTrooper]

agreed poet, knowing LRR he will comeback writing his big articles and using his comments and words that dont make a blind bit of sense!

trying to confuse people with science.

he hates ali that much, he is trying to make out wlad has fought better fighters. unbelivable!

Yeah, it's typical. A word of advice though: If you're going to make a thread taking on an established poster it's better to wait until you've made enough posts to give yourself a track record. Otherwise people will simply figure you're an alt or a newbie: Either way you'll catch some heat. Alts are frowned upon in the serious forums (such as Boxing History); and longtime posters will circle the wagons around a fellow longtime poster if a newbie has a go at him. Just a friendly FYI. Now go build up you post count so you can take the piss out him from a solid foundation

Poet