Wladimir Klitschko

[Southpaw16BF]

Hard to believe you still ain't figured out its bad for a fighter to stay in training for potentially 94 rds all year. Sure, some oldtimers did it, but that's why their records are *******ly sprinkled with losses.

Harry Greb once had a record 45 in one year (1919) and would win of all of them. And these weren't against just half decent fighters. In those 45 fights Greb beat very good contenders and former champion including Bill Brennan, Battling Levinsky, Billy Miske, Mike Gibbons, Mike McTigue, to name a few.

[j]

the parts in bold made me laugh, you truly are a biased idiot with a painfully obvious agenda against ali

i dont see him as biased. i see him as a person who doesnt follow what everyone else thinks. these people usually have insights others dont.

hey, i have fought, and i am trained. i can read more into a boxers mind than people who dont train any fighting style. so, i can say with confidence that londonringrules does have valid points.

[StarshipTrooper]

i dont see him as biased. i see him as a person who doesnt follow what everyone else thinks. these people usually have insights others dont.

hey, i have fought, and i am trained. i can read more into a boxers mind than people who dont train any fighting style. so, i can say with confidence that londonringrules does have valid points.

Actually, where I come from people like LRR are refered to as "The Village Idiot": ie. someone whose pronouncments are so non-sensical, counter-factual, and generally out of left field that people wonder why the pour soul hasn't been instituionalized yet. In the academic environs I've had the opportunities to mingle such demented thinkers are refered to as "crack pots".

Poet

[j]

Actually, where I come from people like LRR are refered to as "The Village Idiot": ie. someone whose pronouncments are so non-sensical, counter-factual, and generally out of left field that people wonder why the pour soul hasn't been instituionalized yet. In the academic environs I've had the opportunities to mingle such demented thinkers are refered to as "crack pots".

Poet

well, in light of his comments pertaining to mine on a different posts, those i would agree with u in.

but on this thread he does have some good points.

for me, i think wladimir could be a handfull in any time. it is just my opinion. but as long as we dont make our opinions to be too personal, we can have good discussion.

thanks for being level headed btw.

[rican4life]

well let me say i respect his fighting ability he is a good technical boxer for a man as big as he is!! I may like his brother better but I respect his ability, Iam going for hayes but it would not surprise me one bit if he beat hayes..

[StarshipTrooper]

well, in light of his comments pertaining to mine on a different posts, those i would agree with u in.

but on this thread he does have some good points.

for me, i think wladimir could be a handfull in any time. it is just my opinion. but as long as we dont make our opinions to be too personal, we can have good discussion.

thanks for being level headed btw.

Caught me on a good day Naw, I'm easily trolled but if someone wants to keep it a serious discussion and not turn things into a fan club for there favorite fighter I'm pretty good.

Poet

[GJC]

i dont see him as biased. i see him as a person who doesnt follow what everyone else thinks. these people usually have insights others dont.

hey, i have fought, and i am trained. i can read more into a boxers mind than people who dont train any fighting style. so, i can say with confidence that londonringrules does have valid points.

I'm all for free thinking and don't believe anyone should run with the pack if their opinion is different. That said there can be a case of why is everyone in the group marching out of step except me.
Also knowing a lot of facts as this fellow undoubtedly does and applying them are two different things. I know all the ingredients for a Bouillabaisse but I can't cook one.
Amending facts to turn a fight that Ali clearly one with lots to spare, i.e. the Mildenberger fight, into a close decision/epic battle is not giving an opinion its altering facts. I'm all for sticking up for your fighter and putting his strengths but denigrating another fighter with outlandish claims is not on.

[LondonRingRules]

Harry Greb once had a record 45 in one year (1919) and would win of all of them. And these weren't against just half decent fighters. In those 45 fights Greb beat very good contenders and former champion including Bill Brennan, Battling Levinsky, Billy Miske, Mike Gibbons, Mike McTigue, to name a few.

** Thank you for making my point in spades.

By the time Harry turned 23, his record was 64-9-10, *******ly sprinkled with losses/NDs/"newspaper decisions" and draws. Most of his bouts were 6 rds, though he eventually made some 10-20 rds. He was fighting often enough that he probably did very little sparring.

Wlad is actually a throwback to the days of Louis, having a similar number of bouts at the same age as Louis. At age 20, Ali had 6 fights, age 21-3, age 22-1, age 23-2, age 24-5, much more carefully brought along than Wlad having 25 fights in two years before his 23rd birthday.

Now as to Sunny Jim, I know you dears want to have Ali gliding upon the waters in a golden mist, casting pimples out of young boys and endowing them with hair upon their caved in chests, but as a fighter he was quite inconsistent in his performances. 5 got to him officially, and arguably 5 unofficially and another 5 that he clearly won, but looked horrible in. In his comeback he was as often as not at least a little out of shape if not a lot out of shape and even his main cheerleader, Cosell, complained about those things.

Every fighter has flaws, and Wlad has his, but in a hypothetical, Wlad is a bad match up for Ali. Sure, we can match the worst of Ali against the best of Wlad, but I prefer to match them in a random series by age or by title fights, or by matching their opponents against each other, or best to best which is much more subjective as best is arguable on top of who wins.

Best to best would be the 72 Ali who went on a tear that year against 5 solid contenders in 6 fights, age 30, against the 30 yr old Wlad who carefully trained for some extra speed against Byrd in the rematch and knocked him out in 7 for his IBF title. Wlad followed Byrd with 7th KO of undefeated Brock and 2nd demo of Austin.

Ali was pretty much flawless in 72, in shape, and obviously motivated, better than his 66 yr which is highly overrated. I'd pick Wlad, but wouldn't discount an Ali win.

[GJC]

** Thank you for making my point in spades.

By the time Harry turned 23, his record was 64-9-10, *******ly sprinkled with losses/NDs/"newspaper decisions" and draws. Most of his bouts were 6 rds, though he eventually made some 10-20 rds. He was fighting often enough that he probably did very little sparring.

Wlad is actually a throwback to the days of Louis, having a similar number of bouts at the same age as Louis. At age 20, Ali had 6 fights, age 21-3, age 22-1, age 23-2, age 24-5, much more carefully brought along than Wlad having 25 fights in two years before his 23rd birthday.

Now as to Sunny Jim, I know you dears want to have Ali gliding upon the waters in a golden mist, casting pimples out of young boys and endowing them with hair upon their caved in chests, but as a fighter he was quite inconsistent in his performances. 5 got to him officially, and arguably 5 unofficially and another 5 that he clearly won, but looked horrible in. In his comeback he was as often as not at least a little out of shape if not a lot out of shape and even his main cheerleader, Cosell, complained about those things.

Every fighter has flaws, and Wlad has his, but in a hypothetical, Wlad is a bad match up for Ali. Sure, we can match the worst of Ali against the best of Wlad, but I prefer to match them in a random series by age or by title fights, or by matching their opponents against each other, or best to best which is much more subjective as best is arguable on top of who wins.

Best to best would be the 72 Ali who went on a tear that year against 5 solid contenders in 6 fights, age 30, against the 30 yr old Wlad who carefully trained for some extra speed against Byrd in the rematch and knocked him out in 7 for his IBF title. Wlad followed Byrd with 7th KO of undefeated Brock and 2nd demo of Austin.

Ali was pretty much flawless in 72, in shape, and obviously motivated, better than his 66 yr which is highly overrated. I'd pick Wlad, but wouldn't discount an Ali win.

OK boy, can I just clarify a few points and I would love it if you could content yourself with short answers to the questions rather than coming up with longer sentences than Judge Jeffries.

1) Do you think that 90s Foreman was better than 70s Foreman?
2) Both Wlad and Byrd all things being equal would beat Ali ?
3) How many rounds do you give Mildenberger in his fight against Ali?
4) What % do you make McCline against Frazier, e.g. 50/50,55/45?
5) How long would you say on average does a fighters peak last and when would you say Liston's peak was?
And finally the big one, by all means include your top 10 or 20 list.
6) Where do you rank Ali in your personal ATG list?

6 very simple questions which I am very interested to hear the answers to, is that simple enough boy?

[StarshipTrooper]

OK boy, can I just clarify a few points and I would love it if you could content yourself with short answers to the questions rather than coming up with longer sentences than Judge Jeffries.

1) Do you think that 90s Foreman was better than 70s Foreman?
2) Both Wlad and Byrd all things being equal would beat Ali ?
3) How many rounds do you give Mildenberger in his fight against Ali?
4) What % do you make McCline against Frazier, e.g. 50/50,55/45?
5) How long would you say on average does a fighters peak last and when would you say Liston's peak was?
And finally the big one, by all means include your top 10 or 20 list.
6) Where do you rank Ali in your personal ATG list?

6 very simple questions which I am very interested to hear the answers to, is that simple enough boy?

You're starting to sound like ME

Poet