Why is it Marciano still talked about like he is this all time great fighter when

[StarshipTrooper]

Two HW much bigger than Rocky, what about them? They're both tough and can hit, the similarities end there.

Similar styles which according to you wouldn't "cut it" in today's game.

Poet

[Kid McCoy]

He won't have to.

Rock's alot like Kelly. Both come straight forward hoping to land that big right, knowing you can't take too much of them. We all know how B-Hop was able to neutralize that right hand. Plus, Rocky is too easy to hit. Fast hands, constant movement and getting clinched on the inside will beat The Rock.

Did you just compare Marciano to Pavlik? Marciano had the heavyweight frame and is much bigger than Hopkins, only he was a conditioning horse who trained down to 185. Hopkins doesn't have the strength to neutralise Marciano. Nobody had more ring savvy than Archie Moore, and even he couldn't keep Marciano off him forever despite some early success. Marciano would KO him, just as all the other top heavyweights Hopkins is being pitted against would.

[res]

He won't have to.

Rock's alot like Kelly. Both come straight forward hoping to land that big right, knowing you can't take too much of them. We all know how B-Hop was able to neutralize that right hand. Plus, Rocky is too easy to hit. Fast hands, constant movement and getting clinched on the inside will beat The Rock.

You're comparing Rocky Marciano to Kelly Pavlik?

So you've decided to just retreat into comedy apparently.


I'd be surprised if Bernie made it to the sixth round.

Dosen't matter if Bernie can hit Rocky, he can't hurt him.

Clinched on the inside? Didn't we just discuss that, he can't control Rocky on the inside, not strong enough.

[them_apples]

Did you just compare Marciano to Pavlik? Marciano had the heavyweight frame and is much bigger than Hopkins, only he was a conditioning horse who trained down to 185. Hopkins doesn't have the strength to neutralise Marciano. Nobody had more ring savvy than Archie Moore, and even he couldn't keep Marciano off him forever despite some early success. Marciano would KO him, just as all the other top heavyweights Hopkins is being pitted against would.

this is one thing I can't stand. Rocky was a conditioning horse indeed. BUT.

He was not some 220 monster with a low body fat and came in at 185. There is only so much fat you can burn off. There are plenty of fighters who were just as lean as him. Holyfield and Norton are some prime examples, they both came in at 208 and 212 respectively (give or take). Holyfield was considered a small heavyweight.

That's a complete load of trash that he was a naturally larger man who would just sweat down to 185. Ether you know nothing about the human body or you are just making stuff up.

I bet Rocky came in at 5-6 % body fat. He had great endurance, but being ripped also comes down to genetics. There is no way in hell he shaved off more than 15-20 lbs than an average heavyweight that comes in good shape.

With this logic, i'll use:

Evander Holyfield: small heavyweight, moved up from cruiser. Prime weight 208 lbs. He came in the equivalent shape as Rocky did.

Rocky: small heavyweight (actually a cruiser) 185 lbs.

Ether Rocky is much smaller than even Holyfield, which would make him a cruiserweight - OR - you are saying he sweats off 20 more lbs than Holyfield does.

I hope you understood that. Anyways, natural heavyweight frame my ass. I will go as far as to say the 250 lb beasts in todays division are fat, and probably should come in at 220. You see guys like Foreman and Ali when they get old and fat, they are easily just as big as Sam peters and Aereolas.

Keep in mind, i'm not doubting the shape he came in, but he does not sweat down from 200+ lbs. He's maybe 190-195 at best.

EDIT: keep in mind, I'm not implying that size will make him automatically lose to some naturally larger men, this is solely aimed at the myth of him being a "natural heavyweight that sweats down" that I hear so often.

[NakiFan]

Doesn't matter. According to you size the only thing that counts and Valuev is 3 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier so by YOUR formula Vitali coldn't POSSIBLY beat Valuev.

Poet

No, size isn't the only thing that matters and I never said that, Vitali has good power, great chin, good speed for a guy his size, what advantages does rock have over him? none.

[StarshipTrooper]

No, size isn't the only thing that matters and I never said that, Vitali has good power, great chin, good speed for a guy his size, what advantages does rock have over him? none.

Oh yes you did: It was the entire premise of your argument.

Poet

[AztecWanker]

Did you just compare Marciano to Pavlik? Marciano had the heavyweight frame and is much bigger than Hopkins, only he was a conditioning horse who trained down to 185. Hopkins doesn't have the strength to neutralise Marciano. Nobody had more ring savvy than Archie Moore, and even he couldn't keep Marciano off him forever despite some early success. Marciano would KO him, just as all the other top heavyweights Hopkins is being pitted against would.

Yea, nobody was more saavy...then. Archie Moore's style is outdated, my dude. Today's HW's are faster, smarter, more athletic and more powerful. Even with today's **** HW class that holds true.

You're comparing Rocky Marciano to Kelly Pavlik?

So you've decided to just retreat into comedy apparently.


I'd be surprised if Bernie made it to the sixth round.

Dosen't matter if Bernie can hit Rocky, he can't hurt him.

Clinched on the inside? Didn't we just discuss that, he can't control Rocky on the inside, not strong enough.

What's wrong with comparing Rocky to Kelly with the logic I used? I said both come forward hoping to land a big right. How is that comedy? Accept it, my dude, The Rock gets schooled in today's game.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

Yea, nobody was more saavy...then. Archie Moore's style is outdated, my dude. Today's HW's are faster, smarter, more athletic and more powerful. Even with today's **** HW class that holds true.

Todays heavyweights are bigger. Thats it. They can't fight at a rugged pace for 6 rounds let alone 15. They are slower than ever. They lack heart and determination. and besides only a few of them, their skills are crap. Not ONE heavyweight today comes close to being the complete package that was Archie Moore.

[TheGreatA]

Yea, nobody was more saavy...then. Archie Moore's style is outdated, my dude. Today's HW's are faster, smarter, more athletic and more powerful. Even with today's **** HW class that holds true.



What's wrong with comparing Rocky to Kelly with the logic I used? I said both come forward hoping to land a big right. How is that comedy? Accept it, my dude, The Rock gets schooled in today's game.

I'd take this







over this







any day.

[them_apples]

I don't think size is so much an issue, it can play a role in a fight in certain style matchups - but generally it's not that massive of an issue.

If someone is going to accuse me of using it in the Hopkins vs Rocky matchup, I was ONLY bringing up size because I knew people would say Rocky would be to big.

still, like my previous post said, utter bull**** that Rocky was a naturally big man that would sweat down to 185. Size only matters if you use it properly.

Lennox is 6'5 230 lbs (he was a naturally big man, not like Aereolla), but he sits back and boxes, so his strength and size isn't going to play that big of a role.

A guy like Foreman bullrushes you, hence his size will play a role if you don't have anything to keep him off.

Even Lewis isn't a 250 lb heavyweight, you look at his prime weight he was more or so 225-230. He was soft when he was at 250.