Tyson vs Holyfield - who of them is better fighter?

[them_apples]

Bull****. His skill level was mediocre at best, and it evaporated completely the day Rooney left. You are mistaking quickness for skill.

I'm astounded there are still so many Tyson knob gobblers left in the world, and how utterly willing they are to discount the man's ridiculous defeats.

rediculous defeats? What about Ali's losses to Leon Spinks and Berbick? Lewis' to Rahman?

Truth is, for a heavyweight he was very skilled. Why not rip on Ali for dropping his hands after every shot he threw? or leaning directly backwards to avoid shots. What about Foreman blocking punches with his face in his prime? You are quite delusional with you're posts.

Tyson wasn't the best, but for a heavyweight he ranks up there.

[Silencers]

Holyfield was the better fighter IMO.

[The Jackal]

Holyfield was the better fighter IMO.

Totally agree proven many times over when he needed to pull out victories he Tyson couldn't hadn't the heart for all his ability

[StarshipTrooper]

Bull****. His skill level was mediocre at best, and it evaporated completely the day Rooney left. You are mistaking quickness for skill.

I'm astounded there are still so many Tyson knob gobblers left in the world, and how utterly willing they are to discount the man's ridiculous defeats.

I'm sure Satan is ice skating today but for a change I'm defending Tyson. Yes, Tyson's KoolAid drinking nuthuggers give him a bad name but to suggest he had no ability is just idiotic. Even at worst I consider him a near-great which to my mind is no small accolade and one doesn't get rated that high without any ability.

Yes, people DO overate his defensive skill but that is only one part of the equation. Offensively he was very skilled rather than just being blessed with natural talent. There have been a number of Heavyweights over the years that possesed brutal KO power: Tyson was hardly unique in that area and not even the hardest punching of the lot. How many of them were as effective offensively as Tyson? Only a very few. Yes, his explosiveness is an inate natural talent (often confused with hand speed), but again that's only part of the equation. Offensively Tyson had the ability to put his punches together in combination, place the punches when and where they needed to go, and he threw the punches precisely. That my friend takes skill.
It also takes skill to cut off the ring against opponents unwilling to fight (and he faced many of them), to steer them to the ropes or the corners where they couldn't run, and keep them there. It takes skill to work past an opponent's longer reach (and all of Tyson's opponents had a longer reach) and put yourself in proper range for your own punches. It also takes skill to force clinches with physically larger opponents (and most of Tyson's opponents where physically larger than he was) when in closer than optimal punching range, forcing a break.

While Tyson IS grossly overated by the KoolAid drinking crowd he is hardly a no-skill bum and making him out to be one is unfair. There are plenty of areas where Tyson can be justly criticised without resorting to manufacturing things that just aren't true. Let's be fair here and not let emotional reactions to nuthuggers clowd our judgement. Tyson is no worse than a near-great and might fairly be considered among the bottom half of the ATGs. I go back and forth on just where his ranking is. Make no mistake though: Primo Carnera he was not. While at his best maybe he wouldn't win a best of ten series with the elites of the upper half of the ATG list it's ludicris to suggest he wouldn't win a fight with any of them. Anybody ranked as an ATG and many of the near greats as well is capable of pulling off a win against anyone else on the ATG list on any given night. That doesn't mean they wouldn't lose five in a row against the same opponent, but it DOES mean at least on one given night they where capable of pulling out a victory. Make fun of the KoolAid drinkers all you like, criticise Tyson for deficiencies he truly had, but lets be fair and NOT slam him for things that are made up.

Poet

[jjones10591]

definitely tyson

[Knighte]

rediculous defeats? What about Ali's losses to Leon Spinks and Berbick? Lewis' to Rahman?

Truth is, for a heavyweight he was very skilled. Why not rip on Ali for dropping his hands after every shot he threw? or leaning directly backwards to avoid shots. What about Foreman blocking punches with his face in his prime? You are quite delusional with you're posts.

Tyson wasn't the best, but for a heavyweight he ranks up there.

well u convinced me them apples Tyson was an all time great. He dominated everyone in his fights with his awesome skill, no one could break through his inpenetratable defense, he showed the heart of a great champion, he was always sportsmanlike (especially in the second Holyfield fight), he was dominating guys like Buster Douglas (and Holy, and Lewis, and williams, and mcBride) before he happened to get caught with a lucky punch, he was totally washed up by the end of his 20s, lewis was just too young for him, the skill level he exhibited against guys like Matthis Jr. and Botha was AWESOME, he never ran from Lewis in the 80s, he only fought the best competition in the greatest era while Lewis and Holy fought bums, he set a shining example of courage and heart for youngsters everywhere to emulate, historians in the future will marvel at the greatness that was Mike Tyson



LOL LOL LOL

[them_apples]

well u convinced me them apples Tyson was an all time great. He dominated everyone in his fights with his awesome skill, no one could break through his inpenetratable defense, he showed the heart of a great champion, he was always sportsmanlike (especially in the second Holyfield fight), he was dominating guys like Buster Douglas (and Holy, and Lewis, and williams, and mcBride) before he happened to get caught with a lucky punch, he was totally washed up by the end of his 20s, lewis was just too young for him, the skill level he exhibited against guys like Matthis Jr. and Botha was AWESOME, he never ran from Lewis in the 80s, he only fought the best competition in the greatest era while Lewis and Holy fought bums, he set a shining example of courage and heart for youngsters everywhere to emulate, historians in the future will marvel at the greatness that was Mike Tyson



LOL LOL LOL

alrighty then, I have him at about number 8 or 9 on my list. He does really well against back pedallers that give him room to launch his assault, he does very badly against brawlers that swarm and bully.

LOL LOL LOL It's a growing trend to automatically think anyone that roots for Tyson doesn't use logic. It's almost as if people are starting to think he was just a WWE fighter. It's to bad. The insults you are using apply to any great heavyweight.

I pretty much agree with what Poet says. People are going overboard with the Tyson hate to counter the nuthuggers, to the point they are becoming delusional.

[taws6]

In the end evander is the better fight, but if both met in the early 90's tyson wins easy.

[Knighte]

In the end evander is the better fight, but if both met in the early 90's tyson wins easy.

But the ball-lickers will be the first to tell you that Tyson was shot by the early 90s!

[The Iron Man]

I'm sure Satan is ice skating today but for a change I'm defending Tyson. Yes, Tyson's KoolAid drinking nuthuggers give him a bad name but to suggest he had no ability is just idiotic. Even at worst I consider him a near-great which to my mind is no small accolade and one doesn't get rated that high without any ability.

Yes, people DO overate his defensive skill but that is only one part of the equation. Offensively he was very skilled rather than just being blessed with natural talent. There have been a number of Heavyweights over the years that possesed brutal KO power: Tyson was hardly unique in that area and not even the hardest punching of the lot. How many of them were as effective offensively as Tyson? Only a very few. Yes, his explosiveness is an inate natural talent (often confused with hand speed), but again that's only part of the equation. Offensively Tyson had the ability to put his punches together in combination, place the punches when and where they needed to go, and he threw the punches precisely. That my friend takes skill.
It also takes skill to cut off the ring against opponents unwilling to fight (and he faced many of them), to steer them to the ropes or the corners where they couldn't run, and keep them there. It takes skill to work past an opponent's longer reach (and all of Tyson's opponents had a longer reach) and put yourself in proper range for your own punches. It also takes skill to force clinches with physically larger opponents (and most of Tyson's opponents where physically larger than he was) when in closer than optimal punching range, forcing a break.

While Tyson IS grossly overated by the KoolAid drinking crowd he is hardly a no-skill bum and making him out to be one is unfair. There are plenty of areas where Tyson can be justly criticised without resorting to manufacturing things that just aren't true. Let's be fair here and not let emotional reactions to nuthuggers clowd our judgement. Tyson is no worse than a near-great and might fairly be considered among the bottom half of the ATGs. I go back and forth on just where his ranking is. Make no mistake though: Primo Carnera he was not. While at his best maybe he wouldn't win a best of ten series with the elites of the upper half of the ATG list it's ludicris to suggest he wouldn't win a fight with any of them. Anybody ranked as an ATG and many of the near greats as well is capable of pulling off a win against anyone else on the ATG list on any given night. That doesn't mean they wouldn't lose five in a row against the same opponent, but it DOES mean at least on one given night they where capable of pulling out a victory. Make fun of the KoolAid drinkers all you like, criticise Tyson for deficiencies he truly had, but lets be fair and NOT slam him for things that are made up.

Poet

Nice post man, i totally agree although i do consider Tyson an ATG. It is very hard to defend Tyson without being labelled a "nuthugger", believe me i get just as annoyed when they make outrageous claims about Tyson, in fact it has the adverse effect and people dislike Tyson because of it!.