Tyson vs Holyfield - who of them is better fighter?

[PLATE]

The fact remains Evander and Lewis fought (and beat) a much higher level of competition.

Spinks was a great fighter but he tiny.. and scared stiff against Tyson in Atlantic City. It remains Tyson's most impressive victory.

I think boxing historians will concur with my view that Lewis was the greatest fighter of the triumvirate, followed by Evander. Your man will be bringing up the rear, and it is a position he earned by his lack of ring intelligence, lack of technical skill, and inability to take care of himself between fights.

A man's potential means nothing.. its what he does with what he has that counts.

[The Iron Man]

Its funny how both those fighters "most impressive victory" was over Tyson, in one case an old Tyson and another a post prison Tyson with few fights under his belt. Who according to you lacked ring intelligence and technical skill. But somehow completed both of these guys legacies...beating a fighter out of his best years never usually does this so Tyson couldn't have been that bad.

Just so you know Tyson did achieve a lot, i mean a hell of a lot. Youngest champ, unified the three major belts,cleared out the division, two time champ (even after a few years in prison), plenty of defences of his undisputed title. And yet as you said "didnt achieve his potential" youve gotta be a decent fighter to achieve all this and yet not achieve your potential.

[LondonRingRules]

Its funny how both those fighters "most impressive victory" was over Tyson, in one case an old Tyson and another a post prison Tyson with few fights under his belt.

** Even on the eve of the McBride fight, Tyson's fearsome legend and reputation was such that the fight was considered a post knee reconstruction tune up to a possible title challenge to Lewis which was what the Williams' fight was intended before the knee blew. Williams and McBride received at least a dozen title offers after those fights, none before them.

I've stayed out of the insipid points proffered by the usual piddling suspects, but you got to admit that turnaround is fair play if you were around in the first heady days of the internet boxing forums when rabid Tyson fans ruled the roost!

I'll restrict myself to the reminder that Ibro ranks Lewis 12, Tyson 13, and Holy 14th. That, and there's a reason why Tyson never met Holy in the ring until a full decade after Tyson won his first title match and Lewis going on 2 decades later, that reason being it took Tyson that long to fall far enough in stature and for them to raise themselves up for those fights to happen.

In fact, theHoly fight is a minor classic, marred only by long standing steroid and HGH accusations against Holy and features the best, most competitive version of post prison Tyson going into the 11th rd, far and away the longest distance any post prison Tyson fight ever went. The ending significant because it features one of Holy's few KO wins after winning the title, and as you properly noted, always used by his fans to feather his superiority.

[La_Vibora]

1)I am waiting to hear the great in his prime fighter that Lewis beat other than possibly the Vitali fight which he lucked out by the fight(which he was losing) getting stopped due to a cut.

2)Why does Lewis always get so much praise for beating a old drugged up Mike Tyson that was only fighting on at that point for money, but Tyson doesn't get credit for beating a Larry Holmes(who was far closer to his prime than the Tyson that Lewis beat), who was already rich,healthy, didn't need the money, and took the fight because he wanted to improve his legacy more than anything else? That still doesn't make any sense to me.


As for who was best, in terms of dominance you have to say Tyson and in terms of competition you have to give it to Holyfield. I think Holyfield was Tyson's Frazier, it would have been a difficult fight even at his best.

[-Lowkey-]

tyson= most overrated boxer of all time holyfield is better by far

[Knighte]

tyson= most overrated boxer of all time holyfield is better by far

At last the voice of reason in this thread.


Thank you, sir.

[Kid McCoy]

The fact remains Evander and Lewis fought (and beat) a much higher level of competition.

Spinks was a great fighter but he tiny.. and scared stiff against Tyson in Atlantic City. It remains Tyson's most impressive victory.

I think boxing historians will concur with my view that Lewis was the greatest fighter of the triumvirate, followed by Evander. Your man will be bringing up the rear, and it is a position he earned by his lack of ring intelligence, lack of technical skill, and inability to take care of himself between fights.

A man's potential means nothing.. its what he does with what he has that counts.

However tiny Spinks was, he was still the Ring/lineal heavyweight champ. Nor was he as tiny as Billy Conn or Bob Foster, yet no one trashes Louis, Ali or Frazier for facing them.

Both Lewis and Holyfield beat a diminished version of Tyson, and both claim him as their marquee win, the one which did more than most to catapult them to legendary status. Yet if Tyson wasn't much good anyway, why is beating him so significant for their legacies?

Without Tyson, Holyfield's record against the top heavyweights is very inconsistent. Split wins with Moorer and 0-1-1 with Lewis. He decisioned Foreman and Holmes, who was four years older than the version KO'd by Tyson. He did beat Bowe, but also lost to him twice. In any case, what did Bowe do except beat Holyfield? He was a carbon copy of Buster Douglas in terms of talent and dedication and for one reason or another never faced most of the top heavies of his era. Holyfield didn't do anything to compare to Tyson's tear through the division in the 80s. I honestly don't see how he is "better by far", as someone claimed above.

Lewis and Tyson actually have several common opponents. Each beat Tucker, Ruddock, Bruno, Biggs, Botha, although in each case it was Tyson who beat them first. Lewis did also beat the likes of Klitschko, Tua and Mercer who imo are better than what Tyson beat at his peak with the possible exception of Tucker. But again it was the win over Tyson which prompted Foreman to call Lewis the best heavy ever. Obviously an exaggeration from Big George, but it does illustrate how important beating Tyson was for his legacy.

Tyson from 86-90 and Lewis through the 90s each did what they had to, beating all the relevant fighters and unifying the division. The difference is Lewis was able to keep it together for longer and go out at the top, whereas Tyson disintegrated after the loss of his original team and Don King taking over. So on that basis I don't have a problem with Lewis being ranked higher, although head to head, prime vs prime, I still favour Tyson.

Btw, it is ludicrous to suggest Tyson lacked technical skill.

[The Iron Man]

Great post Kid McCoy, shame i couldnt give you karma for it.

[La_Vibora]

However tiny Spinks was, he was still the Ring/lineal heavyweight champ. Nor was he as tiny as Billy Conn or Bob Foster, yet no one trashes Louis, Ali or Frazier for facing them.

Both Lewis and Holyfield beat a diminished version of Tyson, and both claim him as their marquee win, the one which did more than most to catapult them to legendary status. Yet if Tyson wasn't much good anyway, why is beating him so significant for their legacies?

Without Tyson, Holyfield's record against the top heavyweights is very inconsistent. Split wins with Moorer and 0-1-1 with Lewis. He decisioned Foreman and Holmes, who was four years older than the version KO'd by Tyson. He did beat Bowe, but also lost to him twice. In any case, what did Bowe do except beat Holyfield? He was a carbon copy of Buster Douglas in terms of talent and dedication and for one reason or another never faced most of the top heavies of his era. Holyfield didn't do anything to compare to Tyson's tear through the division in the 80s. I honestly don't see how he is "better by far", as someone claimed above.

Lewis and Tyson actually have several common opponents. Each beat Tucker, Ruddock, Bruno, Biggs, Botha, although in each case it was Tyson who beat them first. Lewis did also beat the likes of Klitschko, Tua and Mercer who imo are better than what Tyson beat at his peak with the possible exception of Tucker. But again it was the win over Tyson which prompted Foreman to call Lewis the best heavy ever. Obviously an exaggeration from Big George, but it does illustrate how important beating Tyson was for his legacy.

Tyson from 86-90 and Lewis through the 90s each did what they had to, beating all the relevant fighters and unifying the division. The difference is Lewis was able to keep it together for longer and go out at the top, whereas Tyson disintegrated after the loss of his original team and Don King taking over. So on that basis I don't have a problem with Lewis being ranked higher, although head to head, prime vs prime, I still favour Tyson.

Btw, it is ludicrous to suggest Tyson lacked technical skill.

I agree with everything with the excepion of the bolded part. Klitscho was a better fighter than anyone Tyson has beat(even though Lewis didn't really beat him either to be honest), but I disagree with Tua and Mercer. I have always wondered if Tua had something taken out of him from the Ibeabuchi fight(BTW if Ike didn't go crazy he probably would have been Lewis' defining fight), as he just wasn't the same after that. He became a fat slow one armed plodding fighter who threw one punch at a time, nothing like the fight with Ike. In the fights with Rahman and Ike he weighed like 225 lbs, but when he fought Lewis he was about 250lbs. As for Mercer, the only thing he was known for other than winning a medal in th olympics is being dominated by an old Larry Holmes. Even then, Mercer still won the fight imo, I thought Lewis got a gift decision. So out of his three best wins, it is arguable that he lost(or in the case of Vitali was losing) two of them.

[PLATE]

Btw, it is ludicrous to suggest Tyson lacked technical skill.

Bull****. His skill level was mediocre at best, and it evaporated completely the day Rooney left. You are mistaking quickness for skill.

I'm astounded there are still so many Tyson knob gobblers left in the world, and how utterly willing they are to discount the man's ridiculous defeats.