Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[Poet682006]

LOL at GhostofGeorgeWallace getting his shlt pushed in yet again

[GhostofDempsey]

LOL at GhostofGeorgeWallace getting his shlt pushed in yet again

lol at you’re pathetic ass being a cheerleader waving his pompoms in the air like a 16 year old girl. Loser.

[GhostofDempsey]

Would a bout in mid 1918 be too soon for Dempsey?

Maybe, maybe not. Lots of circumstances involved. If you’re holding an ace up your sleeve trying to play gotcha it won’t be enough to sway me, but okay your game for that self congratulatory pat on the back.

[GhostofDempsey]

Not even close to fair; actually quite irrelevant.

Is Willard champion? Looking bad against Jeannette may blow Dempsey's title shot; looking good gains him nothing.

For Jeannette it is an opportunity for Dempsey just a pointless gym war.

Not a comparison worth thinking until we know what Dempsey gains or loses.

Now he is clutching at hypotheticals to try and “win”, this is serious business you know. Lol.

[Willie Pep 229]

I didn't ask if it was relevant according to you. I asked if it was fair.


No. I don't mean champion Willard. I mean Willard, as a promising fighter, pulls the same trick.

Jack Dempsey, according to his own words, would fight him right then and there with no objection according to his own words, right?

Yes or no?

I would hope Kearns would not be so ******.

[travestyny]

Maybe, maybe not. Lots of circumstances involved. If you’re holding an ace up your sleeve trying to play gotcha it won’t be enough to sway me, but okay your game for that self congratulatory pat on the back.

Dude, it's a discussion. And one about things that happened a very long time ago. It won't change anything for anyone. You can relax.

There is no ace up my sleeve. I asked because besides Dempsey's mention of being offered the fight circa 1915 or so, the only other instance I can find of him being offered the fight before becoming champ was in mid/late 1918. And I certainly believe that wasn't too soon for Dempsey. You may disagree, as is your right

[travestyny]

Now he is clutching at hypotheticals to try and “win”, this is serious business you know. Lol.

You are obviously the one obsessed with "winning." You talk about it non-stop while we are having simple discussions. How about you give it a rest and focus on backing up your claims . You can start by showing proof that Dempsey only meant the 1915 offered fight when he claimed he was afraid of Langford, because the information I found after doing a little research contradicts that. So I'm not sure why you were saying that as if it was a fact. Seems it was simply incorrect.

If that's a "win," then so be it. But you seem to be the only one concerned with it.

[travestyny]

I would hope Kearns would not be so ******.

Again, that's not what I asked. You are avoiding the question.


According to Dempsey's own words, would he have fought with no objections?


You are avoiding the question because obviously, according to his own words, YES he would have. Isn't that correct?

[Ivich]

Pretty simple for me.


He said himself that he was afraid of Langford.




As for Jeannette, I've explained my point of view. It's all in Dempsey saying he will fight ANY two white men instead of Jeannette. Seems that it was specifically about his race since he said he didn't agree to fight "a colored boy."

Again, it's all in his own article so I have no reason to disbelieve what he says himself.

Dempsey was referring to the attempt of his then manager John Reisler to match him with Langford when he himself was still a green up and comer,he explains that in his autobiography .He knew he wasnt ready for such tough experienced opposition he also turned down a fight with Gun Boat Smith and Frank Moran around the same time both white boxers .
Reisler threatened and cajoled him into fighting John Lester Johnson a match he wasn't really ready for. Dempsey fought Johnson in the black Harlem Club sustained 3 broken ribs early in the fight but struggled through the ten rds to lose a dec ,pretty commendable imo.
Later with more fights and ring experience under his belt he butchered Smith and had to take it easy on Johnson when he joined his camp as a sparring partner ,its all about timing In 1916 Dempsey wasn't ready for Langford. In1917Fred Fulton jabbed Langford's head off and permanently damaged his eye leaving him sightless in it. Dempsey "Tsunamied " Fulton , a years later, taking him out inside 23 seconds !
One of Dempsey's sparring partners for Fulton was Battling Jim Johnson Dempsey beat up the 30 years old Johnson and Kearns had to restrain Dempsey because he said," I cant get sparring partners for you".Johnson said,"I would rather fight any man in the world than box Dempsey for fun."
Johnson had fought Wills,Langford,Jack Johnson,and Jeannette. So in1917 we have Fulton stopping Langford in 7 rds and a year beating him again One year after Dempsey beating the **** out of Fulton in23 seconds,yet Dempsey was still afraid to face Langford?
Does that make any kind of logical sense to you?

By the time Dempsey was Champion, in1919 Langford was fat ,half blind 36 years old and on the slide ,Dempsey would have hurt him badly and it would have been a criminal match to make.
Pollack's exhaustively researched first volume on Dempsey deals with the Jeannette incident and supplies many primary sources from contemporary news reports and named writers,nowhere does it mention a quote of fighting any two white men,in fact Dempsey said he had agreed to fight Joe Bonds and Joe Bonds only,which rather implies he may well have refused to spar with any other white boxer. Dempsey later gave his services in a benefit for Langford, along with other boxers he gave an exhibition to raise much needed funds for Sam.

[travestyny]

Dempsey was referring to the attempt of his then manager John Reisler to match him with Langford when he himself was still a green up and comer,he explains that in his autobiography .He knew he wasnt ready for such tough experienced opposition he also turned down a fight with Gun Boat Smith and Frank Moran around the same time both white boxers .Reisler threatened and cajoled him into fighting John Lester Johnson a match he wasn't really ready for. Dempsey fought Johnson in the black Harlem Club sustained 3 broken ribs early in the fight but struggled through the ten rds to lose a dec ,pretty commendable imo. Later with more fights and ring experience under his belt he butchered Smith and had to take it easy on Johnson when he joined his camp as a sparring partner its all about timing In 1916 Dempsey wasn't ready for Langford. In1917Fred Fulton jabbed Langford's head off and permanently damaged his eye leaving him sightless in it. Dempsey "Tsunamied " Fulton , a years later, taking him out inside 2 minutes .
One of Dempsey's sparring partners for Fulton was Battling Jim Johnson Dempsey beat up the 30 years old Johnson and Kearns had to restrain Dempsey because he said," I cant get sparring partners for you".Johnson said,"I would rather fight any man in the world than box Dempsey for fun."
Johnson had fought Wills,Langford,Jack Johnson,and Jeannette. So in1917 we have Fulton stopping Langford in 7 rds and a year later Dempsey beating the **** out of Fulton in,yet Dempsey was still afraid to face Langford? Does that make any kind of sense to you?
By the time Dempsey was Champion, in1919 Langford was fat ,half blind and on the slide ,Dempsey would have hurt him badly and it would have been a criminal match to make.
Pollack's exhaustively researched first volume on Dempsey deals with the Jeannette incident and supplies many primary sources from contemporary news reports and named writers,nowhere does it mention a quote of fighting any two white men,in fact Dempsey said he had agreed to fight Joe Bonds and Joe Bonds only,which rather implies he may well have refused to spar with any other white boxer. Dempsey later gave his services in a benefit for Langford, along with other boxers he gave an exhibition to raise much needed funds for Sam.

Would he have been ready for Langford in mid to late 1918? I already showed the proof that this wasn't just about 1915 or whenever. He stated that it was about the multiple times he was asked to fight Langford and he refused every time. I posted that info a page back or so.


As for the Jeannette situation, Demspey's statement that he would fight ANY TWO white men seems to be backed up by at least two sources. One being the NY Times article about the issue. In the NYTimes article, it even mentions that two White men stepped up to the challenge, and then the challenge was rescinded. So clearly it happened unless the NY Times had an agenda to make up the offer, make up two White men stepping up, and then making up the eventual backing out.

The other is straight from Dempsey's own article. It doesn't get more primary source than that.