Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[Anthony342]

I used to round and round with the idiots and trolls and get into protracted arguments and flame wars with them. When came back after my hiatus I just decided life was too short for that bullshlt. Now I just tell them to phuck off with a post or two, then slap them on ignore. I'm just not wasting my time with the bullshlt anymore.

I kind of do the same. If I'm annoyed enough, I'll prove them wrong and if they keep arguing the same dumb points then it gets to the point of the immortal words of wrestling manager/promoter Jim Cornette "Thank you, f*** you, bye"

[Poet682006]

I kind of do the same. If I'm annoyed enough, I'll prove them wrong and if they keep arguing the same dumb points then it gets to the point of the immortal words of wrestling manager/promoter Jim Cornette "Thank you, f*** you, bye"

Love Corny!

[Ivich]

You haven't posted on source or reference since you started posting here. If Johnson really wanted to fight Jeannette, he would not have allegedly signed a contract in a state where he knew the fight could not take place. It's odd that Johnson found excuses not to fight the three top black fighters while champion, but he could give a title shot to Battling Jim Johnson in Paris, a guy who didn't beat anyone to earn that shot.

"Johnson had placed his $5000 forfeit money in Al Tearney's hands and demanded that the McMahon;s forfeit money be given to him if they could not bring off the Jeannette match.
Unfortunately on August 22nd [1912] after holding a long conference behind closed doors withe state athletic commission,the McMahon brothers called off the Jeannette v Johnson match.New York Commissioners O Neil and Dixon refused to allow Johnson to box anyone in NY and threatened to revoke the licence of any club which held a bout with him involved. Edward McMahon,"the commissioners don't want Johnson to appear in a match in New York City. The New York Age,The New York Daily Times,The New York World,August 22nd 1912 .
The same day Johnson was barred from boxing 3rds for a hospital charity in Chicago.
"Bat Masterson writing for the New York Telegraph stated he thought the McMahon Brothers were lucky they had been forced to call off the fight,as he believed it would have been a financial disaster." page 661 Jack Johnson. The Reign Adam Pollack.
"Hugh McIntosh was trying to put together a deal for Johnson to fight in Australia again.Via his representative W C J Kelly he sent Johnson his assurances that he need not fear police interference.At that time McIntosh was offering Johnson $25,000 per fight for two fights for a total of $50,000,the first being with Sam Langford on Boxing Day in Australia. Johnson believed that he could and would negotiate for more ,but once the details were ironed out he expected to sign articles." Chicago Defender September 21st 1912
"On October 12th 1912 Johnson announced that he had agreed with Hugh McIntosh to fight Sam Langford and Sam McVey in Australia
for$55,000 for the two fights plus $5000 training expenses, $60,000 total,plus 5 roundtrip tickets for the members of his party forfeits of $10,000 to be posted with Al Tearney" The Freeman Oct 19th 1912 the Missoulian Oct 13th 1912.
Johnson was arrested on October 18th1912 on a charge of abduction and released on $800 bail.
As a result of all the legal trouble Hugh McIntosh called off Johnson's bouts with Langford and McVey.McIntosh cabled that the Australian sporting public were disgusted by Johnson's relations with the Cameron girl.The allegations had so angered the Australian Sporting Public as to make Johnson a doubtful attraction,even though he was the world champion.Hence the matches were no longer desirable."
All contained in Pollack;s 2nd Vol Jack JohnsonThe Reign.
Sources and references duly posted! Now waiting for you to dismiss them out of hand and continue to blame Johnson for those fights not happening.

[GhostofDempsey]

"Johnson had placed his $5000 forfeit money in Al Tearney's hands and demanded that the McMahon;s forfeit money be given to him if they could not bring off the Jeannette match.
Unfortunately on August 22nd [1912] after holding a long conference behind closed doors withe state athletic commission,the McMahon brothers called off the Jeannette v Johnson match.New York Commissioners O Neil and Dixon refused to allow Johnson to box anyone in NY and threatened to revoke the licence of any club which held a bout with him involved. Edward McMahon,"the commissioners don't want Johnson to appear in a match in New York City. The New York Age,The New York Daily Times,The New York World,August 22nd 1912 .
The same day Johnson was barred from boxing 3rds for a hospital charity in Chicago.
"Bat Masterson writing for the New York Telegraph stated he thought the McMahon Brothers were lucky they had been forced to call off the fight,as he believed it would have been a financial disaster." page 661 Jack Johnson. The Reign Adam Pollack.
"Hugh McIntosh was trying to put together a deal for Johnson to fight in Australia again.Via his representative W C J Kelly he sent Johnson his assurances that he need not fear police interference.At that time McIntosh was offering Johnson $25,000 per fight for two fights for a total of $50,000,the first being with Sam Langford on Boxing Day in Australia. Johnson believed that he could and would negotiate for more ,but once the details were ironed out he expected to sign articles." Chicago Defender September 21st 1912
"On October 12th 1912 Johnson announced that he had agreed with Hugh McIntosh to fight Sam Langford and Sam McVey in Australia
for$55,000 for the two fights plus $5000 training expenses, $60,000 total,plus 5 roundtrip tickets for the members of his party forfeits of $10,000 to be posted with Al Tearney" The Freeman Oct 19th 1912 the Missoulian Oct 13th 1912.
Johnson was arrested on October 18th1912 on a charge of abduction and released on $800 bail.
As a result of all the legal trouble Hugh McIntosh called off Johnson's bouts with Langford and McVey.McIntosh cabled that the Australian sporting public were disgusted by Johnson's relations with the Cameron girl.The allegations had so angered the Australian Sporting Public as to make Johnson a doubtful attraction,even though he was the world champion.Hence the matches were no longer desirable."
All contained in Pollack;s 2nd Vol Jack JohnsonThe Reign.
Sources and references duly posted! Now waiting for you to dismiss them out of hand and continue to blame Johnson for those fights not happening.

You're repeating yourself again. We already seen how he accepted $1K for fight Battling Jim who had lost to Jeannette twice that same year, and in the year prior declined a $20K offer from Jeannette. You can stop humiliating yourself any time now.

[Ivich]

You're repeating yourself again. We already seen how he accepted $1K for fight Battling Jim who had lost to Jeannette twice that same year, and in the year prior declined a $20K offer from Jeannette. You can stop humiliating yourself any time now.

You asked for sources I've provided them.Sources that prove that three title defencesJohnson agreed to ,with Jeannette ,[twice]with Langford and McVey did not happen through no fault of Johnson's. I knew you would not address or accept these sources and didn't post them for your benefit ,but to demonstrate to everyone else how ignorant your statements are on this subject.The only one who has been humiliated here his you pal.
AND BIG TIME!

[GhostofDempsey]

You asked for sources I've provided them.Sources that prove that three title defencesJohnson agreed to ,with Jeannette ,[twice]with Langford and McVey did not happen through no fault of Johnson's. I knew you would not address or accept these sources and didn't post them for your benefit ,but to demonstrate to everyone else how ignorant your statements are on this subject.The only one who has been humiliated here his you pal.
AND BIG TIME!

I provided sources that also reveal he turned down several lucrative offers that met his demands. Round and round we go, where it stops nobody knows. You're not demonstrating anything except for your stubbornness and ignorance. You're clinging to your bias out of some romanticized ideology you have with Johnson. In the end, he never defended his titles against any of the best black fighters and admitted to drawing the color line himself. He accepted $29K less than his usual demand to fight Battling Jim, instead of the other three. You can dismiss these facts all day, every day, doesn't change them.

[Anthony342]

Love Corny!

Me too. Midnight Express=greatest heel team ever. And even though most lean towards Bobby Heenan, Corny is my personal favorite because his promos were the funniest. They're both on my managerial Mount Rushmore though. Corny's podcast isn't too bad, but he's overly critical of the AEW promotion. While I agree they still have a long way to go, especially with their tag and women's division, they have it a lot more together match and storytelling wise these days than WWE, whose booking is mostly a dumpster fire today. Check out a tag team called FTR, if you get a chance. They're like a cross between Tully and Arn and The Midnight Express. If you watch any of the current product, that is.

[travestyny]

I provided sources that also reveal he turned down several lucrative offers that met his demands. Round and round we go, where it stops nobody knows.

Several that met his demands? When did you do that?

All I saw is that you made reference to one here, the other he already told you about, and the others don't meet his demands. So where does several come in at?

French promoter Theodore Vienne says he offered Johnson $25,000 and then $30,000 to meet Langford in Paris. Johnson turned him down. Johnson's continual refusal to meet the best challengers led to the French Boxing Federation stripping him of the title (Winnipeg Tribune, 27th Dec 1913)

McIntosh made a series of offers to Johnson: $55,000 to fight Langford and McVey in Australia (NYT 9 Dec 1912); $30,000 for an unnamed opponent that the author presumes to be Langford (NYT 26th June 1912); $40,000 for Langford and McVey with $5000 expenses and a $10,000 forfeit (NYT 9th August 1912). Then there was a reported $100,000 to fight Langford and Jeannette in Australia and Flynn in Paris (NYT Oct 12 1912)

He literally just told you for the upteenth time that the Australia fights were pulled by the promoter. So the only thing you pointed out is Vienne saying he offered 30,000. Do you have the details of the offer? Time frame?

And why do you still ignore what Ivich just stated? He made the same point about the forfeits that I made previously about the Johnson/Jeannette fight. You ignred it when I posted it and you ignored it when he posted it. In fact, if I remember correctly, you seemed like you didn't even know what a forfeit was when I brought it up.....but suddenly I see you talking about forfeits here and there. So either you didn't know what role forfeits play until I put you onto it, or you were playing dumb. I find that interesting. Either way, didn't Ilvich prove that Johnson accepted these fights and had them pulled by no fault of his own? He provided the sources you kept asking for. His sources even go into detail. Yours doesn't.

[QueensburyRules]

Several that met his demands? When did you do that?

All I saw is that you made reference to one here, the other he already told you about, and the others don't meet his demands. So where does several come in at?



He literally just told you for the upteenth time that the Australia fights were pulled by the promoter. So the only thing you pointed out is Vienne saying he offered 30,000. Do you have the details of the offer? Time frame?

And why do you still ignore what Ivich just stated? He made the same point about the forfeits that I made previously about the Johnson/Jeannette fight. You ignred it when I posted it and you ignored it when he posted it. In fact, if I remember correctly, you seemed like you didn't even know what a forfeit was when I brought it up.....but suddenly I see you talking about forfeits here and there. So either you didn't know what role forfeits play until I put you onto it, or you were playing dumb. I find that interesting. Either way, didn't Ilvich prove that Johnson accepted these fights and had them pulled by no fault of his own? He provided the sources you kept asking for. His sources even go into detail. Yours doesn't.

- - Good to see Weensy back proving just how difficult for Black champ JJohnson and Dempsey to defend against black challengers back then or even get a fight made at all.

But had Dempsey been exiled to Paree', we'd have seen a much longer reign against a much broader cast of fighters. As it was, he defended against an Argentinian, French War Hero, and a US Marine Hero, so that ain't shabby for the times. He'd have KOed everyone of JJ defenses, but the same can't be said of JJ vs Dempsey defenses.

Yup

[GhostofDempsey]

Several that met his demands? When did you do that?

All I saw is that you made reference to one here, the other he already told you about, and the others don't meet his demands. So where does several come in at?



He literally just told you for the upteenth time that the Australia fights were pulled by the promoter. So the only thing you pointed out is Vienne saying he offered 30,000. Do you have the details of the offer? Time frame?

And why do you still ignore what Ivich just stated? He made the same point about the forfeits that I made previously about the Johnson/Jeannette fight. You ignred it when I posted it and you ignored it when he posted it. In fact, if I remember correctly, you seemed like you didn't even know what a forfeit was when I brought it up.....but suddenly I see you talking about forfeits here and there. So either you didn't know what role forfeits play until I put you onto it, or you were playing dumb. I find that interesting. Either way, didn't Ilvich prove that Johnson accepted these fights and had them pulled by no fault of his own? He provided the sources you kept asking for. His sources even go into detail. Yours doesn't.

You still crying? I'm done with you and your lies, weak sources and biased opinions. Keep wasting my time and yours quoting me and thinking you're "winning". I'm intentionally ignoring you because of your behavior and mental illness. But keep quoting me if you wish.