Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[JAB5239]

Thread starter here, haven't been around for a while and good to see this still going.

I haven't evaluated my list for a good few years now and it needs updating.

Like it or not it's about time we start mentioning the Klitchkos. With their achievments they have to be talked about alongside such other all time greats.
Also on H2H they have such huge advantages.

Will we ever see a good 6ft 215lb heavyweight evenly compete with a good 6ft 8" 250+lb heavyweight.

As much as we'd all hate it, isn't it time for a superheavyweight division.

What up my friend? Good to see you creeping around the history section!

Head to head they're contenders in any era. As far as all time ranking at heavyweight.....I base my criteria mostly on resume. In that department Vitaly doesn't make the top 20. While impressive in his wins, the guys he has beaten have really accomplished nothing at heavyweight. A few decent names, but nothing to push him into the top 20.

Wlad, as boring as I find him, can make a case for top 15 all time. He's on a good streak and has been running through the division and beating the top contenders. Had he done this in a stronger era he'd probably be a shoe in for top 10. As it stands the era is weak and with lousy talent. This isn't his fault, but I can't justify bumping fighters who were just as if not more accomplished against fighters from tougher era's. Jmo.

[Nick Name]

Hi everyone, just joined and I know this has probably been done a million times, but just letting everyone know what I think.

Top 10 Greatest Heavyweights of all-time

1> Muhammad Ali
2> Larry Holmes
3> Lennox Lewis
4> Joe Louis
5> Evander Holyfield
6> Jack Johnson
7> George Foreman
8> Rocky Marciano
9> Joe Frazier
10>Mike Tyson

Ok let's be a little serious: what criterium is this list based on? Logic? Let's do some logic then. This above, is your top-10 favorite list, not the top-10 greatest.
Anyone who ever saw a boxing match on TV (I'm not talking about experts, only about non-blinded people), can't avoid from placing these boxers as a top 3 of all time. Anything else is questionable and arguable, but the top-3 ever boxers of all time is UN-ARGUABLY this one:

1. Joe Louis - technically as good as Ali, but -> he had a defense. <- The man had all the repertoire and in his prime he could have beaten any heavyweight of any era.

2. Rocky Marciano - By his own statement, and I agree with him, prime Louis was too much for him. Louis with his own great technique, reach advantage, speed, defense and power skills combined was the only heavyweight you can think of that could prevail on Marciano. 49-0 with 43 knockouts in 15-rounds fights, coming from a guy who averagely weighed 10lbs less than his opponents: consider that Wladimir Klistcko fights at averagely 210 lbs, Marciano fought averagely at 180. He was actually a light-heavyweight. So, the the record speaks for itself. Did he face the best opposition in history? Of course not. Did he fight bums? The "Marciano fought bums and old guys" catchphrase is useless haters' material, just like the "Calzaghe is a joke" and "Floyd Mayweather jr. is a coward" catchphrases are. Guess what's the little thing those 3 fighters have in common that drives the envious crazy? They stand undefeated. Enough said.

3. Muhammad Ali - He was the greatest at boxing but not at fighting if you get what I mean: guy had no defense. Lightning fast hands, who were never there to cover up his chin. And the parkinson disease is the unmistakeable proof that Ali took too much punishment in his career. Ali had a style which clearly couldn't match with Marciano's slickness nor with Louis power. I even doubt he could have made it against one like Jack Dempsey... But Dempsey's times came when boxing technique was too inaccurate compared to post-WW2 boxing. If you watch a video of Jess Willard shadowboxing, you'll most certainly get what I mean.
Anyway, for the quality of opponents he beat and the way he did that, Ali deserves this place.

I beg your pardon for sounding maybe a little too haughty, I don't want to sound like I'm the Gospel, but I'm not going to argue on the top-3 list. It's just too perfect: Louis, Marciano, Ali. It's just unarguably the all time boxing heavyweight top 3. I can't be defeated with any logic so it's all up for imagination & other odds. Example: Ali beats Marciano for a cut over the eye etc. etc. you get my point.

The rest of the list is of course arguable and here's mine:

4. Sam Langford - look at one of his highlight videos and see how brilliant he was, and how skilled despite the rough technique of the era. Then look at his record and see why I ranked him so high.

5. Jack Dempsey - he had that poor, rough, pre-WW1 technique, but the guy was a genius: think about the Dempsey roll, falling step and double shift, all techniques invented by Dempsey: he had a huge talent and was a pioneer in boxing techniques. If he was trained by one of today's trainers, he would demolish both the Kltschko's on the same night.

6. George Foreman

7. Sonny Liston

8. Mike Tyson

9. Jack Johnson

10. Floyd Patterson

The position from 4 on are all arguable, but the top-3 is absolutely unmodifiable untile the next great heavyweight era which is not the one we're in.

[Barn]

Ok let's be a little serious: what criterium is this list based on? Logic? Let's do some logic then. This above, is your top-10 favorite list, not the top-10 greatest.
Anyone who ever saw a boxing match on TV (I'm not talking about experts, only about non-blinded people), can't avoid from placing these boxers as a top 3 of all time. Anything else is questionable and arguable, but the top-3 ever boxers of all time is UN-ARGUABLY this one:

1. Joe Louis - technically as good as Ali, but -> he had a defense. <- The man had all the repertoire and in his prime he could have beaten any heavyweight of any era.

2. Rocky Marciano - By his own statement, and I agree with him, prime Louis was too much for him. Louis with his own great technique, reach advantage, speed, defense and power skills combined was the only heavyweight you can think of that could prevail on Marciano. 49-0 with 43 knockouts in 15-rounds fights, coming from a guy who averagely weighed 10lbs less than his opponents: consider that Wladimir Klistcko fights at averagely 210 lbs, Marciano fought averagely at 180. He was actually a light-heavyweight. So, the the record speaks for itself. Did he face the best opposition in history? Of course not. Did he fight bums? The "Marciano fought bums and old guys" catchphrase is useless haters' material, just like the "Calzaghe is a joke" and "Floyd Mayweather jr. is a coward" catchphrases are. Guess what's the little thing those 3 fighters have in common that drives the envious crazy? They stand undefeated. Enough said.

3. Muhammad Ali - He was the greatest at boxing but not at fighting if you get what I mean: guy had no defense. Lightning fast hands, who were never there to cover up his chin. And the parkinson disease is the unmistakeable proof that Ali took too much punishment in his career. Ali had a style which clearly couldn't match with Marciano's slickness nor with Louis power. I even doubt he could have made it against one like Jack Dempsey... But Dempsey's times came when boxing technique was too inaccurate compared to post-WW2 boxing. If you watch a video of Jess Willard shadowboxing, you'll most certainly get what I mean.
Anyway, for the quality of opponents he beat and the way he did that, Ali deserves this place.

I beg your pardon for sounding maybe a little too haughty, I don't want to sound like I'm the Gospel, but I'm not going to argue on the top-3 list. It's just too perfect: Louis, Marciano, Ali. It's just unarguably the all time boxing heavyweight top 3. I can't be defeated with any logic so it's all up for imagination & other odds. Example: Ali beats Marciano for a cut over the eye etc. etc. you get my point.

The rest of the list is of course arguable and here's mine:

4. Sam Langford - look at one of his highlight videos and see how brilliant he was, and how skilled despite the rough technique of the era. Then look at his record and see why I ranked him so high.

5. Jack Dempsey - he had that poor, rough, pre-WW1 technique, but the guy was a genius: think about the Dempsey roll, falling step and double shift, all techniques invented by Dempsey: he had a huge talent and was a pioneer in boxing techniques. If he was trained by one of today's trainers, he would demolish both the Kltschko's on the same night.

6. George Foreman

7. Sonny Liston

8. Mike Tyson

9. Jack Johnson

10. Floyd Patterson

The position from 4 on are all arguable, but the top-3 is absolutely unmodifiable untile the next great heavyweight era which is not the one we're in.

In no conceivable way is Marciano better than Ali.

[Nick Name]

In no conceivable way is Marciano better than Ali.

Lack of defense is a more than conceivable way, it's just logic: Ali relied too much on his chin, he had his guard always down regardless of the punches he took and therefore his opponents always took a lot from him: the Parkinson disease/punch-drunk syndrome he caught from the punches is the proof that he took too many of them. If Frazier was able to KD him, then imagine what Marciano would have done to him.
Ali's technique was just as good as it gets, but there's no way he'd have survived 15 rounds against Marciano. It's just out of logic.

[Scott9945]

Lack of defense is a more than conceivable way, it's just logic: Ali relied too much on his chin, he had his guard always down regardless of the punches he took and therefore his opponents always took a lot from him: the Parkinson disease/punch-drunk syndrome he caught from the punches is the proof that he took too many of them. If Frazier was able to KO him, then imagine what Marciano would have done to him.
Ali's technique was just as good as it gets, but there's no way he'd have survived 15 rounds against Marciano. It's just out of logic.

When exactly did Frazier KO Ali?

[Nick Name]

When exactly did Frazier KO Ali?

I meant KD sorry
Frazier was able to hit Ali with too much ease. In truth I believe that Ali's defense was too careless to work against Marciano's tremendous stamina, and relentless power.
Ali could evade punches very well, but that technique requires a lot of energy, so a fighter with such stamina as Marciano would have weared Ali down and caught him flush just like Frazier did in round 15 in the first fight.

Ali relied too much on his own chin, and he caught the punch-drunk syndrome: that shows how big a mistake he did: he should've worked much more on his defense and guard. Marciano had a slick defense, and so did Joe Louis: a solid defense is what misses Ali to be the best EVER.

[SBleeder]

Lack of defense is a more than conceivable way, it's just logic: Ali relied too much on his chin, he had his guard always down regardless of the punches he took and therefore his opponents always took a lot from him: the Parkinson disease/punch-drunk syndrome he caught from the punches is the proof that he took too many of them. If Frazier was able to KD him, then imagine what Marciano would have done to him.
Ali's technique was just as good as it gets, but there's no way he'd have survived 15 rounds against Marciano. It's just out of logic.

Willie Pep, Wilfred Benitez, and Nicolino Locche all had/have pugilistic dementia.
Pernell Whitaker slurs his words pretty badly.

I suppose that's because they all had poor defense, right?

[Joeyzagz]

Which Top 10 list is more valid?

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Mike Tyson
3. Max Schmelling
4. Max Baer
5. Marvin Hart
6. Michael Moorer
7. Michael Spinks
8. Michael Grant
9. Michael Dokes
10. Monte Barett

1. Joe Louis
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Jack Johnson
4. Joe Frazier
5. John L Sullivan
6. James Jeffries
7. James J Corbett
8. James Buster Douglas
9. Jersey Joe Walcott
10. Jess Willard

[joseph5620]

I meant KD sorry
Frazier was able to hit Ali with too much ease. In truth I believe that Ali's defense was too careless to work against Marciano's tremendous stamina, and relentless power.
Ali could evade punches very well, but that technique requires a lot of energy, so a fighter with such stamina as Marciano would have weared Ali down and caught him flush just like Frazier did in round 15 in the first fight.

Ali relied too much on his own chin, and he caught the punch-drunk syndrome: that shows how big a mistake he did: he should've worked much more on his defense and guard. Marciano had a slick defense, and so did Joe Louis: a solid defense is what misses Ali to be the best EVER.

You talk as if Marciano and Louis never got hit. Neither are known for their defense.

[Scott9945]

Which Top 10 list is more valid?

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Mike Tyson
3. Max Schmelling
4. Max Baer
5. Marvin Hart
6. Michael Moorer
7. Michael Spinks
8. Michael Grant
9. Michael Dokes
10. Monte Barett

1. Joe Louis
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Jack Johnson
4. Joe Frazier
5. John L Sullivan
6. James Jeffries
7. James J Corbett
8. James Buster Douglas
9. Jersey Joe Walcott
10. Jess Willard

I'll take the J's over the M's. Of course including Monte Barrett killed any chance for the M's.