Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Barn]

I'll take the J's over the M's. Of course including Monte Barrett killed any chance for the M's.

Then adding Marvin Hart mutilated it's dead body.

[Nick Name]

Willie Pep, Wilfred Benitez, and Nicolino Locche all had/have pugilistic dementia.
Pernell Whitaker slurs his words pretty badly.

I suppose that's because they all had poor defense, right?

Pernell Whitaker slurs his words just like James Toney, that doesn't mean they have Parkinson.

Locche, Pep, Roy Jones jr (he's gonna have dementia too if he keeps on fighting): they all had their hands down all the match long... They slip one punch to please the crowd and then get caught flush for not paying enough attention to the opponent... That's what happens when showboating becomes more important than fighting : that's the weakness of many talented fighters: they rely too much on their talent, lose humility, their ego grows, they lose control and get hurt. Louis and Marciano didn't have those ego-issues: that's why they were the best.

I've read a fùcker calling Marciano "a flat footed slow ass"... That's what Marciano might look to a bored, ignorant spectator with no attention span: Marciano had little ego, he didn't like showboating, he respected his opponents, and he beat hard. Unlike Ali. Ali called himself "the greatest of all times", but he came to show he just had the greatest ego of all times.

[Barn]

Pernell Whitaker slurs his words just like James Toney, that doesn't mean they have Parkinson.

Locche, Pep, Roy Jones jr (he's gonna have dementia too if he keeps on fighting): they all had their hands down all the match long... They slip one punch to please the crowd and then get caught flush for not paying enough attention to the opponent... That's what happens when showboating becomes more important than fighting : that's the weakness of many talented fighters: they rely too much on their talent, lose humility, their ego grows, they lose control and get hurt. Louis and Marciano didn't have those ego-issues: that's why they were the best.

I've read a fùcker calling Marciano "a flat footed slow ass"... That's what Marciano might look to a bored, ignorant spectator with no attention span: Marciano had little ego, he didn't like showboating, he respected his opponents, and he beat hard. Unlike Ali. Ali called himself "the greatest of all times", but he came to show he just had the greatest ego of all times.

One of these days you might come to terms with the fact Ali is greater than Marciano.

Marciano died young he might have got Parkinsons etc in his later years.

Also you realise it's the consistent heavy sparring that causes damage not fighting. Unless you fight 300 bouts or something. I doubt Ali showboated during sparring when the tapes were off.

[Nick Name]

You talk as if Marciano and Louis never got hit. Neither are known for their defense.

Man, they were human: do you know a boxer who never got hit? Even Money Mayweather gets hit sometimes.

[Nick Name]

Marciano died young he might have got Parkinsons etc in his later years.

Marciano died at 46, Ali was diagnose Parkinson at 42. Roach even in his 20's. If Marciano had Parkinson, it would certainly have shown earlier.

Also you realise it's the consistent heavy sparring that causes damage not fighting. Unless you fight 300 bouts or something. I doubt Ali showboated during sparring when the tapes were off.

Good point there. Probably Marciano had also the wit to cover up better in sparring... Probably Ali had underestimated that.

One of these days you might come to terms with the fact Ali is greater than Marciano.

As a communicator and humanitarian? Maybe. As a fighter? I don't think so. (same goes for Joe Louis btw).

[Barn]

Marciano died at 46, Ali was diagnose Parkinson at 42. Roach even in his 20's. If Marciano had Parkinson, it would certainly have shown earlier.

Not necessarily, different people different means. For example in hereditary conditions it can show up in the son before the father.

Good point there. Probably Marciano had also the wit to cover up better in sparring... Probably Ali had underestimated that.

I'm unaware of either's sparring habits.

As a communicator and humanitarian? Maybe. As a fighter? I don't think so. (same goes for Joe Louis btw).

I've always thought Rocky was a better human than Ali but, a worse fighter.



Also parkinsons does not directly relate to getting punched in the head hard repeatedly for everyone. Look at Jake LaMotta he speaks alright and his brain seems fine. Let's not say LaMotta took less punishment than Freddie Roach.

[Nick Name]

Not necessarily, different people different means. For example in hereditary conditions it can show up in the son before the father.

That's correct. That doesn't change the fact that Parkinson's disease never showed up on Marciano.

I'm unaware of either's sparring habits.

Me too, you brought in the subject.

I've always thought Rocky was a better human than Ali but, a worse fighter.

Maybe he was a better human and a better fighter than Ali

Also parkinsons does not directly relate to getting punched in the head hard repeatedly for everyone. Look at Jake LaMotta he speaks alright and his brain seems fine. Let's not say LaMotta took less punishment than Freddie Roach.

That's correct. But maybe La Motta was really able to take a punch and didn't care to show he had an "iron chin"

Also, let me add one thing: the main reason people considers Ali better than Marciano is the opposition he faced: Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton... But let's remember that Ali had a considerable size advantage on Marciano: Rocky never fought over the 190 lbs... He often weighed just 180 or even less... Ali went on to weigh even 220 lbs... and he was often taller and heavier than his opponents.

Marciano fought the older Walcott but Walcot weighed a over 10lbs more than him. Joe Louis weighed 20lbs more than him at the time.

Ali beat Liston and Patterson, but Liston was 10 years older than him: a prime Liston could have knocked Ali out in in my opinion. Patterson was 8 years older and 15 lbs lighter than Ali...

So the opposition Ali faced was better than Marciano's but not enough to make him a greater fighter than Marciano. I'm not underrating Ali, I'm just recognizing Rocky his own credit.

[Barn]

Also, let me add one thing: the main reason people considers Ali better than Marciano is the opposition he faced: Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton... But let's remember that Ali had a considerable size advantage on Marciano: Rocky never fought over the 190 lbs... He often weighed just 180 or even less... Ali went on to weigh even 220 lbs... and he was often taller and heavier than his opponents.

The best people on Rocky's resume were CW anyway. Charles, Moore, Walcott.

Marciano fought the older Walcott but Walcot weighed a over 10lbs more than him. Joe Louis weighed 20lbs more than him at the time.

Walcott was a late bloomer as well so fighting him late isn't really a detractor.

Joe Louis was also quite a bit past prime. He was still a very good fight but, a shade of his former self.

Ali beat Liston and Patterson, but Liston was 10 years older than him: a prime Liston could have knocked Ali out in in my opinion. Patterson was 8 years older and 15 lbs lighter than Ali...

Where do you consider Liston's prime? Liston always loses to Ali in my opinion.

So the opposition Ali faced was better than Marciano's but not enough to make him a greater fighter than Marciano. I'm not underrating Ali, I'm just recognizing Rocky his own credit.

Both were Undisputed HW Champion. Ali making 19 defences to Rocky's 4.
Ali fought a higher percentage of Top 10 opponents throughout his career than anyone in history and in a better era than Rocky.

Has great wins such as prime George Foreman, a win which decimates any on Rocky's resume.

Also did amazing past prime beating Norton and as I said earlier Foreman.

[NChristo]

Locche, Pep, Roy Jones jr (he's gonna have dementia too if he keeps on fighting): they all had their hands down all the match long... They slip one punch to please the crowd and then get caught flush for not paying enough attention to the opponent...

No, no they didn't, Locche had his arms up as much as he had them down and please show me where Locche or Pep slip one punch and get hit by another, for every 1 you show me I'll show you 3 of them avoiding / blocking combinations. That's if the opponent has a chance too start a combo and they aren't already out of the way.

[joseph5620]

Man, they were human: do you know a boxer who never ghot hit? Even Money Mayweather gets hit sometimes.

Then stop talking about their defense as if they never got hit.


Both took more punishment than Ali did. Marciano's nose was split in half by Charles and please show me any fight where Ali got hit as much as Louis did against Schmeling in the first fight.