Joe Louis, greatest heavyweight of all time?

[HOUDINI563]

When? Study up loser.

[The plunger man]

I've thought about it considerably, and I might have to place Louis as the best heavyweight ever. It's a hard decision, because boxing has changed so much since then and the way he went about the title was a little tricky. He had 25 defenses of his title, but the majority of them were Bum of the Month types. Johnny Paycheck, Buddy Baer and the rest of Joe Blow and the Nobody Crew. The best guys he beat as champion were Billy Conn and the rematch with Max Schmelling. Schmelling of course blew him out in 12 in their first fight.

What gives Louis considerable clout with the rankings I'd say is his punching power; him and Sonny Liston are my top picks with regards to having the hammer at heavyweight. The punches that Louis landed to knock out Jimmy Braddock and Max Schmeling were whoppers, right hands with everything turned on it and punched right through them.

What I also like about Louis is that he was smart as well as tough. Sure, he had to climb off the canvas almost as much as Floyd Patterson, but he did it and came back to win a lot. He had that perfect flaw that was an integral part of the Felix Trinidad appeal, he was human yet seemed to transcend that role as a man in the ring.

Of course, with the American public still reeling from the in-your-face bravado of Jack Johnson, Joe Louis' image had to be tailored to make him acceptable to the segregated times that he lived in. Listed among Louis' "bad habits" were an addiction to chicken and a voracious appetite for chewing bubble gum. Later it would turn out that he also was just as voracious with women and in later years would struggle with ******* and several other drugs.

During WWII, when I believe Franklin Roosevelt squeezed his muscle and said "We need more muscles like these for the effort", he became the first beloved black man in pop culture for embodying American values. As Jimmy Cannon stated, "Joe Louis is a credit to his race, the human race."

In the modern era of primadonna sports stars, Joe Louis can be appreciated for the talent and class that he intertwined simultaneously. One of the many black eyes that America carries is the way that the IRS harrassed Joe Louis later in his life, subjecting him to such farces as his ill-fated comeback against Rocky Marciano and his sojourn into the world of professional wrestling.

In the end, Louis was left in a somewhat less than majestic state, as a greeter for a Las Vegas casino. He also suffered from bouts of delusions as a result of his issues with drugs. He was given a hero's burial in Arlington National Cemetary when he died in 1981, an ending befitting the great character that he was. Athis funeral, Muhammad Ali whispered into Joe Louis Barrow Jr.'s ear "Your father truly was the greatest."

I would say ranks in the top 3 along with Ali and Lewis ...each fighter can claim the top spot and depends which resume you view as the best

[The plunger man]

Lennox Lewis beat Evander Holyfield , Mike Tyson. , vitality klitchcko , razor Ruddock , Ray mercer , Tommy Morrison , Shannon Briggs , Mike weaver , Andrew golota , won the heavyweight title 3 times and defeated every heavyweight he stepped in the ring with and retired as undisputed heavyweight world champion. ....also was Olympic heavyweight champion and beat rid**** bowe in the final....if we talk resumes then Lennox Lewis ranks at the very top on the list....no matter who is biased towards old school fighters

[HOUDINI563]

By being koed twice by singular blows Lewis is brought down several notches.

[Anthony342]

In answer to the original question, I would say yes, yes he is.

[Rusty Tromboni]

When? Study up loser.

Hahahahaha! Typical bi.tch.

Nice White Flag you got there.


Actually, I was kinda getting into Boxing at the time. And yeah, the narrative that Wlad was chinny was laid on pretty heavy. Let's be honest, White folks had given up seriously caring about Boxing decades before. And while Tiger was tearing it up in Golf, Boxing was the other sport besides sprinting where Black folks were supposed to be allowed to dominate. People didn't want a White champ. And if he became a champ, his reign had to be cheapened.

But here's the thing: we can go back and watch old timers. We can view footage and quickly reference records. The mythos is gone.

Wlad was a great champ. He'd **** pretty much anyone else who held the championship before him.

He definitely didn't lose to no Max Schmeling, no Joe Frazier, no Tim Witherspoon or Michael Spinks, no Oliver McCall.

And his losses came before he linked up with Steward, who called him the best he ever worked with.

The corrie Sanders that KO'd Wlad KOs pretty much every other Heavyweight champion who came before. Maybe Ali, Holmes and Tyson survive that. But no one who has money, would put money down on them winning.

And even when Wlad got jolted, he got back up. Ali quit on his stool against Holmes. Foreman stayed down aftr getting counted out against Ali and Young. Holmes didn't even make an effort of getting up while being counted out against Tyson.

Wlad is a lot better than you describe him. And you'd know that better than anyone when he made you suck Joe Louis' **** off his Ukrainian ****.

[QueensburyRules]

Lennox Lewis beat Evander Holyfield , Mike Tyson. , vitality klitchcko , razor Ruddock , Ray mercer , Tommy Morrison , Shannon Briggs , Mike weaver , Andrew golota , won the heavyweight title 3 times and defeated every heavyweight he stepped in the ring with and retired as undisputed heavyweight world champion. ....also was Olympic heavyweight champion and beat rid**** bowe in the final....if we talk resumes then Lennox Lewis ranks at the very top on the list....no matter who is biased towards old school fighters

- -Louis the very embodiment of the ideal American man set unbreakable records.

1 time and done.

Been in more HOFer fights than U boy. Took his title to the people and they loved him.

No so Lewie.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Lennox Lewis beat Evander Holyfield , Mike Tyson. , vitality klitchcko , razor Ruddock , Ray mercer , Tommy Morrison , Shannon Briggs , Mike weaver , Andrew golota , won the heavyweight title 3 times and defeated every heavyweight he stepped in the ring with and retired as undisputed heavyweight world champion. ....also was Olympic heavyweight champion and beat rid**** bowe in the final....if we talk resumes then Lennox Lewis ranks at the very top on the list....no matter who is biased towards old school fighters

It's a shame you're not being ironic. I laughed hysterically when I read this. here i though I was laughing WITH you....


Look, bro, you're a good guy. You know you don't need to do that.

Tyson - Lewis stayed in the Ammies just to avoid that kid.
Golota - you know Golota of the Bowe fight ****s Lewis so bad, every proctologist back in Jamaica is working overtime for weeks.
Bowe - the fight never happened. Bobick beat Holmes in the Ammies, who was the better Pro? Bowe could take it MUCH better than Lewis, even if Lewis could dish it out better. Proof: Evander Holyfield.
Mercer - clearly you never saw that fight.
Morison and Briggs - did you see their respective fights with Foreman?
Weaver & ruddock - usually if you have to grasp for straws to make an argument, you shouldn't be making it. I frequently reference the Ruddock fight because it shows the atheltic, assertive side of Lewis, but it's also pretty damming that he only looked that good against guys who were there to lose.
Klitchko - Who gets retired on a WIN? Technically, Lewis won, but he retired because he knew Vitali was the division's top dog. Vitali was robbed his rightful win, but he won the moral victory. It was awesome watching Lewis' plan backfire on him, and the referee being forced to come to his rescue.

Lewis is a top fighter. He's too big and advanced for most fighters of previous generations. But settling into the top 10 is complimentary enough. Trying to push him to the absolute top isn't just re'tarded, it's shameless.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Louis the very embodiment of the ideal American man set unbreakable records.

1 time and done.

Been in more HOFer fights than U boy. Took his title to the people and they loved him.

No so Lewie.

He also got dropped by Buddy "Well, My Brother Made This Look Eeasy Enough, I Figured I should Try It, Too" Baer, Jimmy "This Is What Nepotism Looks Like, Suck It All You Talented Bastards Who Kicked My Ass All Those Years Ago at Light Heavyweight" Braddock, Joe "Do I Get A Wheelchair To Bring Me to the Ring, or Do I Have to Bring My Own" Walcott", Rocky "I Staaa'ted Bawksi Laaast Yea" Marciano, Max "i Should Have Retired Last Year" Schmeling and Tony "Two Ton" Galento --- that's is HIS nickname, I didn;t make that one up.

Seriously, he was great, but he didn't fight the greatest competition. He'd get destroyed by Dempsey and Tunney. And I am not sure he'd ever get his hand raised against the Willard of Havana.

Hurts to hear, but his best win came against a still developing Light Heavyweight. there have been a lot of men bigger than Billy Conn competing at Heavyweight since 1941.

[The plunger man]

It's a shame you're not being ironic. I laughed hysterically when I read this. here i though I was laughing WITH you....


Look, bro, you're a good guy. You know you don't need to do that.

Tyson - Lewis stayed in the Ammies just to avoid that kid.
Golota - you know Golota of the Bowe fight ****s Lewis so bad, every proctologist back in Jamaica is working overtime for weeks.
Bowe - the fight never happened. Bobick beat Holmes in the Ammies, who was the better Pro? Bowe could take it MUCH better than Lewis, even if Lewis could dish it out better. Proof: Evander Holyfield.
Mercer - clearly you never saw that fight.
Morison and Briggs - did you see their respective fights with Foreman?
Weaver & ruddock - usually if you have to grasp for straws to make an argument, you shouldn't be making it. I frequently reference the Ruddock fight because it shows the atheltic, assertive side of Lewis, but it's also pretty damming that he only looked that good against guys who were there to lose.
Klitchko - Who gets retired on a WIN? Technically, Lewis won, but he retired because he knew Vitali was the division's top dog. Vitali was robbed his rightful win, but he won the moral victory. It was awesome watching Lewis' plan backfire on him, and the referee being forced to come to his rescue.

Lewis is a top fighter. He's too big and advanced for most fighters of previous generations. But settling into the top 10 is complimentary enough. Trying to push him to the absolute top isn't just re'tarded, it's shameless.

no it’s not....he beat everybody he faced....the only reason why Tyson went pro is because he got beat by Henry Tillman in the Olympic qualifiers so he turned pro early .....making an excuse saying that Lewis never turned pro because of Tyson is pathetic....in your view Ali should never have boxed in the Olympic s ....Lewis record speaks for itself and you questioning Lewis close fight with mercer is no different t to Ali’s close fights with norton...go ask George how good he thinks Lewis was before you try that bull**** with me.
Lewis record is every bit as good as Louis or Ali’s and retired at the top.
Louis got knocked out by Schmeling and had many a dud fight as champion ....galento ffs
He is the only man besides Ali to regain the title 3 times....Tyson was stripped of his title because he refused to fight Lewis in 1996....Lewis dominated Tony tucker who Tyson boxed and was rocked by.....destroyed ruddock in 2 rounds who went life and death with Tyson 2 times.
As I said Lewis beat them all and I don’t **** what you think or say lol
Bowe lost 2 Holyfield in the 2nd fight and was let off the hook in the 3rd fight by Holyfield
Bowe also chucked is belt in the bin rather that face Lewis and that was an agreed fight.
Do actually know the history of fighters you are talking about ?