Joe Louis, greatest heavyweight of all time?

[K-DOGG]

your correct i am over simplifying it..i apologise BUT you have to admit that both liston fights were dubious...this was a guy who would make frazier, foreman etc quake with fear YET ali knocked him out with a 3 inch right after 90 seconds....this from a guy who was never a one punch killer ( he was always a combination finisher )against a fighter who had never gone down in his career

In the first fight, Liston quit because he knew Clay was gonna knock him out...he'd beat the crap out of him in the 6th.

In the second fight, the referee, Walcott, screwed up. He never directed Ali to a neutral corner, never gave Liston a count, and listened to the editor of a magazine and stopped the fight after Liston and Ali had already reengaged with each other. That was Walcott's first time refereeing a Championship bout and his last....he royally screwed up.

The reason both fights had that "air" about them was because of the su****ious nature of the Nation of Islam (Malcolm X had just been assasinated) and Sonny's ties to the mob. The punch that dropped him was legit; but he could have gotten up. He didn't becaue Ali, whom he thought was a nutjob, was dancing all around and the ref never gave him a count.

The ref's job is to protect the fighter, Walcott shirked this by alloweing Ali to be within punching range while Liston was on the canvas. Also, when a fighter gets knocked down, they listen for the count.....Walcott never gave one.


The whole affair was FUBAR.

[joelouisbarrow]

I would rank bowe and tyson ahead of walcott, without a doubt. If that idiot actually fought after his fights with golota, he might have been top 10.

Either way i dont rank johnson and dempsey in my top 10, marciano is there no doubt. But sorry lennox and evander have better resume than those two and no one is changing my opinion on it.

i have no argument with holyfield...i picked him to eventually beat the then undefeated tyson back in 89 ( yes everyone laughed at me ) but i will never rate lewis in a top 10....

[butterfly1964]

In the first fight, Liston quit because he knew Clay was gonna knock him out...he'd beat the crap out of him in the 6th.

In the second fight, the referee, Walcott, screwed up. He never directed Ali to a neutral corner, never gave Liston a count, and listened to the editor of a magazine and stopped the fight after Liston and Ali had already reengaged with each other. That was Walcott's first time refereeing a Championship bout and his last....he royally screwed up.

The reason both fights had that "air" about them was because of the su****ious nature of the Nation of Islam (Malcolm X had just been assasinated) and Sonny's ties to the mob. The punch that dropped him was legit; but he could have gotten up. He didn't becaue Ali, whom he thought was a nutjob, was dancing all around and the ref never gave him a count.

The ref's job is to protect the fighter, Walcott shirked this by alloweing Ali to be within punching range while Liston was on the canvas. Also, when a fighter gets knocked down, they listen for the count.....Walcott never gave one.


The whole affair was FUBAR.

..

[Heckler]

The idea that a sharp right cross that landed on Listons jaw as he moved towards ali dropped him is absurd? Anymore absurd than the notion that an old man liston was able to anticipate and fall immediately upon the contact this '3 inch punch' made ... that could only be seen with the assitance of slow motion replay, delivered by the fastest punching HW of all time?

[butterfly1964]

The idea that a sharp right cross that landed on Listons jaw as he moved towards ali dropped him is absurd? Anymore absurd than the notion that an old man liston was able to anticipate and fall immediately upon the contact this '3 inch punch' made ... that could only be seen with the assitance of slow motion replay, delivered by the fastest punching HW of all time?

[Brassangel]

In Joe Frazier's book he talks to a man that worked with the late Charles Sonny Liston who said that Liston admitted that the punch scrambled his eggs. The unexpected punches are the punches that usually do the most damage, especially when coupled with an unprepared recipient. Add this to the fastest heavyweight swing, a long, leveraged arm, and an old man in the challenger's position, and you have a mean punch.

I do believe Liston would have gotten up from this, however, but as stated above, Walcott did a worse job at ref than most officials at College Footbal Bowl Games do.

[QueensburyRules]

I've thought about it considerably, and I might have to place Louis as the best heavyweight ever. It's a hard decision, because boxing has changed so much since then and the way he went about the title was a little tricky. He had 25 defenses of his title, but the majority of them were Bum of the Month types. Johnny Paycheck, Buddy Baer and the rest of Joe Blow and the Nobody Crew. The best guys he beat as champion were Billy Conn and the rematch with Max Schmelling. Schmelling of course blew him out in 12 in their first fight.

What gives Louis considerable clout with the rankings I'd say is his punching power; him and Sonny Liston are my top picks with regards to having the hammer at heavyweight. The punches that Louis landed to knock out Jimmy Braddock and Max Schmeling were whoppers, right hands with everything turned on it and punched right through them.

What I also like about Louis is that he was smart as well as tough. Sure, he had to climb off the canvas almost as much as Floyd Patterson, but he did it and came back to win a lot. He had that perfect flaw that was an integral part of the Felix Trinidad appeal, he was human yet seemed to transcend that role as a man in the ring.

Of course, with the American public still reeling from the in-your-face bravado of Jack Johnson, Joe Louis' image had to be tailored to make him acceptable to the segregated times that he lived in. Listed among Louis' "bad habits" were an addiction to chicken and a voracious appetite for chewing bubble gum. Later it would turn out that he also was just as voracious with women and in later years would struggle with ******* and several other drugs.

During WWII, when I believe Franklin Roosevelt squeezed his muscle and said "We need more muscles like these for the effort", he became the first beloved black man in pop culture for embodying American values. As Jimmy Cannon stated, "Joe Louis is a credit to his race, the human race."

In the modern era of primadonna sports stars, Joe Louis can be appreciated for the talent and class that he intertwined simultaneously. One of the many black eyes that America carries is the way that the IRS harrassed Joe Louis later in his life, subjecting him to such farces as his ill-fated comeback against Rocky Marciano and his sojourn into the world of professional wrestling.

In the end, Louis was left in a somewhat less than majestic state, as a greeter for a Las Vegas casino. He also suffered from bouts of delusions as a result of his issues with drugs. He was given a hero's burial in Arlington National Cemetary when he died in 1981, an ending befitting the great character that he was. Athis funeral, Muhammad Ali whispered into Joe Louis Barrow Jr.'s ear "Your father truly was the greatest."

- -Always had Joe #1.

Only guy to challenge him was Wlad who touched base before falling short.

Btw, class act by Ali if true.

[louis54]

Dempsey and louis the two best

[HOUDINI563]

Wlad was koed in laughable fashion multiple times. Went down over and over in these bouts in sections. Glass chins don’t do well vs the elite of boxing history.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Wlad was koed in laughable fashion multiple times. Went down over and over in these bouts in sections. Glass chins don’t do well vs the elite of boxing history.

Oh yeah!? Like when?