Why Ali was not the greatest

[BKM-]

First thing A couple of bums from my highschool knew about Ali were: Wasn´t he the greatest boxer ever ehhhh *drools*. Pep, Armstrong and Robinson might have been greater if you analize everything, but the average person doesn´t know them, and sees Ali as the greatest ever.

[Verstyle]

i was hoping butterfly would read it first it didnt work. but yeah im ****in around of course

[Southpaw Stinger]

First thing A couple of bums from my highschool knew about Ali were: Wasn´t he the greatest boxer ever ehhhh *drools*. Pep, Armstrong and Robinson might have been greater if you analize everything, but the average person doesn´t know them, and sees Ali as the greatest ever.

Perhaps true greatness is how you are percieved and remembered by others. Some fighters do great in the ring but get little recognition. Others are well known through media or events but achieve very little in the ring.

Ali has the gift of being an extremely great fighter and also idolised by many through both boxing and as a figure. So in that sense, Ali outshines even Robinson and is the greatest.

[Lubutheimmortal]

Perhaps true greatness is how you are percieved and remembered by others. Some fighters do great in the ring but get little recognition. Others are well known through media or events but achieve very little in the ring.

Ali has the gift of being an extremely great fighter and also idolised by many through both boxing and as a figure. So in that sense, Ali outshines even Robinson and is the greatest.

Well you can take Ali's boxing away and still have a popular figure from the 70's like X, King, and ect. That's the only reason most people remember him, was because of what he was outside the ring. He was great in and out,....the greatest thought...hmm IMO no. Great none the less.

[hhascup]

Jesus Christ!!! That's some research you've done there mate, I would have just said that Tyson hasn't fought anywhere near the calibre of opponent that Ali has. Good post though.

That's what I love to do, research. Thanks!

first off i dont disagree with your post its good BUT u cant go off of age to determine a prime.and for the numbers wouldnt that say that ali might have fought alot more older fighters?

Yes, I agree, but you have to look at their hold careers. No one gave Tyson a match until Douglas came along. Plus everytime Tyson got in trouble or hurt, he folded. He just didn't have the heart of a Ali or Marciano

ali was a bum with overrated hand speed and an overrated chin. he fought nothing but old ppl that were already damaged goods. ppl mock tyson for beating holmes. but ali ****in fought archie moore! and floyd patterson! more damaged goods!

Ali's left jab was timed faster then Sugar Ray Robinson's and he was hit by some of the hardest punchers in the history of boxing. Shavers, Foreman, Frazier, Mac Foster, Lyle, etc., and none of these guys knocked him out. Most boxing historians would agree that he had one of the best chins in boxing history.

[hhascup]

Here's some of the people that have rated the top heavyweights.

All Time Heavyweight Ratings:

The best and the rest
1.Ali
2.Louis
3.Liston
4.Foreman
5.Tyson
6.Tunney
7.Dempsey
8.Johnson
9.Marciano
10.Frazier
11.Holmes
12.Jeffries
13.Walcott
14.Corbett
15.Patterson
16.Charles
17.Schmeling
18.Holyfield

New Page 2
1 - Muhammad Ali.
2 - Larry Holmes.
3 - Lennox Lewis.
4 - Evander Holyfield.
5 - George Foreman.
6 - Joe Louis.
7 - Rocky Marciano.
8 - Gene Tunney. >
9 - Mike Tyson.
10 - Jack Dempsey.


The Top Ten Greatest Heavyweight Champions In History>

1. Muhammad Ali - Simply The Greatest, he fought every deserving contender in an era absolutely crammed with them. Also, earns points as the first man in history to win the title three times.

2. Jack Johnson - Way ahead of his time, he was a defensive master. Neither before or since has a heavyweight champion been so blessed in the ability of avoiding blows. Also had hurtful punching power.

3. Jack Dempsey - Revolutionised the sport with his savage fighting style. Also had an absolutely granite jaw.

4. Joe Louis - The longest reign in heavyweight history - an astonishing, never to be beaten, record 25 title defences. Pure one punch KO power, never wasted a shot.

5. Rocky Marciano - Retired unbeaten! Seemingly impossible to hurt. Also had endless stamina and vicious punching power.

6. George Foreman - The oldest heavyweight champion in history. Had freakish strength and thudding punch power. Also had more stamina in later career. Only ever stopped once, by the guy at the top of this list.

7. Larry Holmes - Vastly underrated, second only to Louis in number of title defences. Possibly possessed the finest jab in heavyweight history.

8. Sonny Liston - Had sheer brute force and power. Also a decent boxer, with a ramrod of a jab. Was at his peak in late 1950’s, an old man against Clay/Ali.

9. Joe Frazier - Owned probably the best left hook in heavyweight boxing. Also had amazing heart and an unlimited ability at taking punishment.

10. Evander Holyfield - Proved all his critics wrong when they said he wasn’t big enough. Used incredible guts and courage to defeat the huge Rid**** Bowe. Also shocked the world by smashing Tyson.


Cox's Corner All Time Heavyweight Ratings
THE TOP 20 HEAVYWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Sonny Liston
8. Jim Jeffries
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Mike Tyson
11. Rocky Marciano
12. Joe Frazier
13. Rid**** Bowe
14. Evander Holyfield
15. Sam Langford
16. Gene Tunney
17. James J. Corbett
18. Ezzard Charles
19. Jersey Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

Here's Bert Sugar's list:

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Johnson
4. Dempsey
5. Tunney
6. Marciano
7. Charles
8. Foreman
9. Frazier
10. Holmes

Historians Rankings


(Please Note The Dates)


Nat Fleischer, Founder of Ring Magazine, 1958, 1971.

1.Jack Johnson
2.Jim Jeffries
3.Bob Fitzsimmons
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Jim Corbett
6.Joe Louis
7.Sam Langford
8.Gene Tunney
9.Max Schemling
10.Rocky Marciano


Charley Rose, 1968
1.Sam Langford
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Joe Louis
5.Jim Jeffries
6.Gene Tunney
7.Sam McVey
8.Rocky Marciano
9.Jim Corbett
10.Max Baer

World Boxing 1974 Readers Poll
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Johnson
5.Muhammad Ali
6.Joe Frazier
7.Gene Tunney
8.Jim Jeffries
9.Sonny Liston
10.Ezzard Charles


Nat Loubet, 1975
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Jim Jeffries
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Gene Tunney
7.Bob Fitzsimmons
8.James J. Corbett
9.Muhammad Ali
10.Joe Frazier



John Durant -Author of "The Heavyweight Champions" (1976)

1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Muhammad Ali
5.Gene Tunney
6.Joe Frazier
7.Jim Jeffries
8.James J. Corbett
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Max Schemling



Bill Brennan 1978 (Former President of the WBA)

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Jim Jeffries
7.Max Schemeling
8.Rocky Marciano
9.James J. Corebett
10.Bob Fitzsimmons



Big Book of Boxing Reader Poll, 1978

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Jack Johnson
6.Gene Tunney
7.Joe Frazier
8.Jim Jeffries
9.Ezzard Charles
10.Sonny Liston



Bert Sugar, 1991

1.Jack Dempsey
2.Joe Louis
3.Muhammad Ali
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Joe Frazier
8.Larry Holmes
9.Sonny Liston
10.Mike Tyson



Arthur Harris, 1992 (Nov 1992 Boxing Scene)

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Jack Johnson
5.Gene Tunney
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Larry Holmes
8.Jersey Joe Walcott
9.Joe Frazier
10.Sonny Liston



Nigel Collins, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Evander Holyfield
4.Larry Holmes
5.George Foreman
6.Jack Johnson
7.Rocky Marciano
8.Joe Frazier
9.Jack Dempsey
10.Sonny Liston



Herbert Goldman, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Sonny Liston
4.Mike Tyson
5.Larry Holmes
6.Jack Johnson
7.Jack Dempsey
8.George Foreman
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Joe Frazier




Steve Farhood, 1997

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Johnson
4.Larry Holmes
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Jack Dempsey
7.Jim Jeffries
8.Evander Holyfield
9.Mike Tyson
10.George Foreman



BBC Sports, 2004

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Jack Johnson
4.Larry Holmes
5.Jack Dempsey
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Lennox Lewis
8.Mike Tyson
9.George Foreman
10.Evander Holyfield



IBRO Member Poll, 2005

1.Joe Louis
2.Muhammad Ali
3.Jack Johnson
4.Jack Dempsey
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Larry Holmes
7.James Jeffries
8.George Foreman
9.Sonny Liston
10.Joe Frazier



Tracy Callis
Heavyweights:

1.Jim Jeffries
2.Jack Johnson
3.Jack Dempsey
4.Joe Louis
5.Muhammad Ali
6.Gene Tunney
7.Jim Corbett
8.Sonny Liston
9.Rocky Marciano
10.Larry Holmes

ALL-TIME POUND-FOR-POUND BOXERS

Max Kellerman:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Sam Langford
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Benny Leonard
10. Ezzard Charles
10a. Jimmy Wilde


Tony Atlas:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Benny Leonard
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Mickey Walker
8. Roberto Duran
9. Gene Tunney
10. Carlos Monzon
10a. Joe Louis


ESPN.com:
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Alexis Arguello
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sugar Ray Robinson
5. Joe Louis
6. Roy Jones Jr.
7. Julio Cesar Chavez
8. Abe Attel
9. Ray Leonard
10. Rocky Marciano
10a. Wilfred Benitez

[Hydro]

Perhaps true greatness is how you are percieved and remembered by others. Some fighters do great in the ring but get little recognition. Others are well known through media or events but achieve very little in the ring.

Ali has the gift of being an extremely great fighter and also idolised by many through both boxing and as a figure. So in that sense, Ali outshines even Robinson and is the greatest.

Most people are idiots when it comes to boxing.

The casual fan may only know Roberto Duran for quitting or Michael Spinks for getting starched in 91 seconds by Mike Tyson, but us boxing geeks know (or should) know how great those guys were.

[The Surgeon]

Most people are idiots when it comes to boxing.

The casual fan may only know Roberto Duran for quitting or Michael Spinks for getting starched in 91 seconds by Mike Tyson, but us boxing geeks know (or should) know how great those guys were.

Of Course my Hoarse!

[The Surgeon]

Well you can take Ali's boxing away and still have a popular figure from the 70's like X, King, and ect. That's the only reason most people remember him, was because of what he was outside the ring. He was great in and out,....the greatest thought...hmm IMO no. Great none the less.

Who was the greatest in ur opinion? I ask because i respect ur opinion

[brownpimp88]

O please hydro, foreman didn't beat enough contenders to be top 5? Who do u rank in the top 5 ahead of foreman, marciano and dempsey lol. Foreman has a much better resume than both of them and he actually fought black people unlike dempsey. Let's see who foreman beat.

frazier twice
norton
lyle
moorer
cooney
chuvalo twice
peralta
qawi
denis
rodriguez


Ya, i say thats a hell of a lot better resume than tyson, dempsey, and marciano. Foreman is top 5, live with it.