Why Ali was not the greatest

[hhascup]

LOL @ Cooney being a contender in 1990. He hadn't won a fight in over 3 years! His last fight was a KO loss to Michael Spinks in 1987.

LOL @ Qawi being a heavyweight contender too. He was a light heavyweight and cruiserweight champion. He did next to nothing at heavyweight, and had just been starched in 4 rounds by Holyfield before losing to Foreman.

Rodriguez was the only guy you can can all a contender that Foreman beat on the way up to his title shot against Holyfield, and even then, Rodriguez had just been stretched out in 2 by Holyfield.

Actually none of them were top 10 contenders when Foreman fought them. He only fought 11 top 10 contenders in his hold career. Chuvalo, Peralta (2nd bout), Frazier, Norton, Ali, Lyle, Frazier (again), Jimmy Young, Holyfield, Morrison and Moorer.

Marciano was fed tough opposition relatively early, didn't lose a fight, and didn't hand-pick his opposition like Foreman did. Nor did he act disgracefully when he was a champion, like Foreman did in the 90s, but got a pass because he's an old man. He won more title fights than Foreman, too.

Marciano fought 11 top 10 contenders as well. LaStarza, Rex Layne, Louis, Harry Mathews, Walcott (twice), LaStarza (again), Charles (twice), ****ell and Archie Moore.

Foreman also fought 27 bouts that his opponent was at one time or another, rated in the top 10 in the World.

Marciano fought 16 bouts that his opponent was at one time or another, rated in the top 10 in the World.

Foreman fought opponents that had an average record of 20.78-7.54-1.0 (72.5399)
Marciano fought opponents that had an average record of 29.7-10.16-1.7755 (73.48%)

[Yogi]

Rodriguez was the only guy you can can all a contender that Foreman beat on the way up to his title shot against Holyfield, and even then, Rodriguez had just been stretched out in 2 by Holyfield.

Along with both Cooney & Qawi, Rodriguez was yet another opponent of Foreman's who wasn't ranked when he fought him, as illustrated here with Ring's rankings for July 1990 (the closest rating period I have from just before Foreman/Rodriguez);

1. Buster Douglas
2. Mike Tyson
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Michael Dokes
5. Tim Witherspoon
6. Francesco Damiani
7. Carl Williams
8. Razor Ruddock
9. Gary Mason
10. Tony Tucker

Heck, even Foreman wasn't a ranked contender again at the time of that fight.

[Hydro]

Along with both Cooney & Qawi, Rodriguez was yet another opponent of Foreman's who wasn't ranked when he fought him, as illustrated here with Ring's rankings for July 1990 (the closest rating period I have from just before Foreman/Rodriguez);

1. Buster Douglas
2. Mike Tyson
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Michael Dokes
5. Tim Witherspoon
6. Francesco Damiani
7. Carl Williams
8. Razor Ruddock
9. Gary Mason
10. Tony Tucker

Heck, even Foreman wasn't a ranked contender again at the time of that fight.

Yeah that should be pretty accurate. The fight took place in June 1990 and if the issue is July 1990, then it's "as of"" date for the rankings are probably up to around April.

[BKM-]

You should have asked Santa for a calculator so you could do it yourself.

Good legwork hhascup and props to you for taking the time and sharing that info.

ahh i should have asked you, you are known for getting all your ''knowledge'' from boxrec, aint that right trailer park boy.

[BKM-]

Here's what I have, BUT I still have to go over it again.

Tyson had 36 out of 58 (62.06896%) bouts against top 10 contenders and his average opponent record was 22.27586-3.53448-0.293 (86.4597%).

Lewis had 26 out of 44 (59.09%) bouts against top 10 contenders and his average opponent record was 25.1-5.227-0.50 (82.24%).

Holyfield had 37 out of 50 (74.00%) bouts against top 10 contenders and his average opponent record was 28.94-3.9-0.52 (87.529976%).

Cool. But thats still only numbers. Just interesting.

[SABBATH]

ahh i should have asked you, you are known for getting all your ''knowledge'' from boxrec, aint that right trailer park boy.

Thanks for the Christmas card. You're looking quite well these days.

[BKM-]

Thanks for the Christmas card. You're looking quite well these days.

Oh are we going on the rants like old times, Smasher? well im not gonna start annymore against a 50+ year old trailer park perv. tell me, how long did it take to find that picture, and the pictures of men you posted around here? Just be carefull, Bubbles. you might get banned again

[hhascup]

ahh i should have asked you, you are known for getting all your ''knowledge'' from boxrec, aint that right trailer park boy.

Most of my knowledge came way before "boxrec," in fact they contacted me to be one of their editors when they found out about what I know.

[SABBATH]

Oh are we going on the rants like old times, Smasher? well im not gonna start annymore against a 50+ year old trailer park perv. tell me, how long did it take to find that picture, and the pictures of men you posted around here? Just be carefull, Bubbles. you might get banned again

I would have become a gynecologist if I wanted to spend my time talking to ****s.

[brownpimp88]

1st of all, I really like George Foreman, BUT if you look at his overall record he fought only 11 top 10 contenders out of 81 bouts (13.58%), and won only 7 of them (8.64%). His average opponents record was 20.78-7.54-1.04, for a winning percentage of only 72.5399%.

Compare him with some others:

Of Ali's 61 bouts, he fought boxers that were rated in the top 10 in the World when he fought them 38 times (62.295%), winning 33 (54.098%) of them. He also fought a total of 49 bouts that boxers that were rated in the top 10 at one time or another in his 61 bouts. That's a percentage of 80.3279%.

Of Louis's 72 bouts, he fought boxers that were rated in the top 10 in the World when he fought them 34 times (47.887%), winning 31 (43.056%) of them. He also fought a total of 54 boxers that were rated in the top 10 at one time or another in his 72 bouts. That's a percentage of 76.056%.

Of Rocky's 49 bouts, he fought boxers that were rated in the top 10 in the World when he fought them only 11 times (22.44898%), winning all 11 (22.44898%) of them. He also fought a total of 16 bouts that boxers were rated in the top 10 at one time or another in his 49 bouts. That's a percentage of only 32.653%.

Ali fought boxers with an average pro record of 32.23 - 5.25 - 1.2 for an average winning percentage of 85.268595%

Louis fought boxers with an average pro record of 38.1 - 10.23 - 2.6 for an average winning percentage of 77.349364%

Rocky fought boxers with an average pro record of 29.7 - 10.16 - 1.77 for an average winning percentage of 73.48%

You can do your numbers game as much as you want, maricano and louis would have lost to foreman. Take a look at rocky's 49 opponents, 36 of them are d level bums. Foreman has beat more b level fighters and his wins over undefeated norton, frazier, lyle and undefeated moorer is more impressive than rocky beating an old walcott, an old moore and an old louis.