Why Ali was not the greatest

[Hydro]

Salvador Sanchez is the Greatest

He's not even the greatest Mexican fighter ever.

Chavez is.

[The Noose]

I've done a lot of thinking about this. I've always appreciated Ali's enormous physical skills and ring generalship, but something has always held me back from proclaiming him the best ever. Now I realize that, in my opinion, Ali simply took too many fights "off." Maybe comparable to how Shaq approaches the game of basketball (shows up during the playoffs)? To me, this lackadaisacal tendancy is completely unacceptable. It is probably what nearly got him knocked out versus Henry Cooper (saved by Dundee's "rip"), and it is definitely what caused him to lose the heavyweight title to a 7-fight pro (a complete disgrace to himself, the sport, and the luster of the heavyweight title, regardless of the result of the rematch).
While Michael Jordan may have had an off-night here and there, his committment every night was to play as hard as possible at all times. Sadly, Ali seemed to consider himself above that consistent, workmanlike approach. In my opinion, what George Foreman accomplished as a 40-plus-year-old fighter (actually able to seriously mix it up with some of the best in the division AND winning the title again...by KNOCKOUT!) makes him, to me, the best heavyweight champion ever.

So.... Foreman is not only better than Ali, but the greatest heavyweight ever because he knocked out Moorer.
And Ali lost to Spinks.

I swear there was some rumor i heard a while ago about a young frieght train called Foreman being KO'd by an old has been called Ali in Ziare.

[Mr. Ryan]

I've done a lot of thinking about this. I've always appreciated Ali's enormous physical skills and ring generalship, but something has always held me back from proclaiming him the best ever. Now I realize that, in my opinion, Ali simply took too many fights "off." Maybe comparable to how Shaq approaches the game of basketball (shows up during the playoffs)? To me, this lackadaisacal tendancy is completely unacceptable. It is probably what nearly got him knocked out versus Henry Cooper (saved by Dundee's "rip"), and it is definitely what caused him to lose the heavyweight title to a 7-fight pro (a complete disgrace to himself, the sport, and the luster of the heavyweight title, regardless of the result of the rematch).
While Michael Jordan may have had an off-night here and there, his committment every night was to play as hard as possible at all times. Sadly, Ali seemed to consider himself above that consistent, workmanlike approach. In my opinion, what George Foreman accomplished as a 40-plus-year-old fighter (actually able to seriously mix it up with some of the best in the division AND winning the title again...by KNOCKOUT!) makes him, to me, the best heavyweight champion ever.

George Foreman, best champion ever? He himself put himself out of the top 10 of all time. Foreman knocking out a glass jawed Michael Moorer who would be lucky to be considered a B level heavyweight champion is hardly the greatest accomplishment of all time. It was a great accomplishment given the circumstances, but thats that. If Foreman was to knock out Holyfield, thats a different situation all together.

Ali was young when he fought guys like Cooper and Dundee didn't create the tear, he just magnified it and brought it to the attention of the ref. It was on Cooper to adjust, but instead he got stopped in the next round. You can't complain to the ref, this is a man's game.

Outside of that, Ali always handled his business in the ring. He beat Foreman, avenged his losses to Norton and Frazier twice over. He was way over the hill when he fought Spinks but still managed to come back and beat him in the rematch. You can't hate on Ali for doing him, thats the way he does.

[butterfly1964]

Did Ali/Clay ever win a round on all three cards without throwing a punch?

The first round against Floyd Patterson in 1965.

[Lubutheimmortal]

The first round against Floyd Patterson in 1965.

Clay throws two jabs right when the bells ding's. He doesn't throw alot of punches mostly plays with Patterson, but none the less he threw 4-5 jabs in that round. So I'll have to see someone more "proving" then that.

[Mike Tyson77]

I sure as hell saw George Foreman knocking out a PRIME JOE FRIAZER.



Nobody can laugh when some people say George Foreman is a top 5. He's accomplished too much.

[Hydro]

I sure as hell saw George Foreman knocking out a PRIME JOE FRIAZER.



Nobody can laugh when some people say George Foreman is a top 5. He's accomplished too much.

What does this have to do with the original thread starter saying Foreman is NUMBER ONE all-time?

Nobody can laugh, but you sure as hell can solid arguments for him being outside the top 5.

[K-DOGG]

I've done a lot of thinking about this. I've always appreciated Ali's enormous physical skills and ring generalship, but something has always held me back from proclaiming him the best ever. Now I realize that, in my opinion, Ali simply took too many fights "off." Maybe comparable to how Shaq approaches the game of basketball (shows up during the playoffs)? To me, this lackadaisacal tendancy is completely unacceptable. It is probably what nearly got him knocked out versus Henry Cooper (saved by Dundee's "rip"), and it is definitely what caused him to lose the heavyweight title to a 7-fight pro (a complete disgrace to himself, the sport, and the luster of the heavyweight title, regardless of the result of the rematch).
While Michael Jordan may have had an off-night here and there, his committment every night was to play as hard as possible at all times. Sadly, Ali seemed to consider himself above that consistent, workmanlike approach. In my opinion, what George Foreman accomplished as a 40-plus-year-old fighter (actually able to seriously mix it up with some of the best in the division AND winning the title again...by KNOCKOUT!) makes him, to me, the best heavyweight champion ever.

I'm an Ali fan...and you were making a lot of sense until you threw in that George Foreman bit at the end. Close, IMO; but no cigar.

[BuddyChacon]

I don't agree - if you're talking athletic talent, Ali was probably the most athletically gifted heavyweight there ever was.

In terms of boxing accomplishments, I would rank him the number 2 heavyweight. But in terms of overall significance, there's no doubt - Ali was and is "The Greatest".

Louis was more of the complete fighter IMO, but Ali deserves to be called the best.

[Hydro]

George Foreman, best champion ever? He himself put himself out of the top 10 of all time. Foreman knocking out a glass jawed Michael Moorer who would be lucky to be considered a B level heavyweight champion is hardly the greatest accomplishment of all time. It was a great accomplishment given the circumstances, but thats that. If Foreman was to knock out Holyfield, thats a different situation all together.

agreed.

it was amazing 2 do what he did at age 45, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he beat weak opposition in his 2nd career and didn't exactly beat many contenders in his career.