Just becuse he won the rematch, that doesnt mean **** to the first fight, these are two seperate fights... so regarding the rematch whippty ****ing dooo pat the kid on his back...
But fight 1, its clear he was given a gift.
He just stood there and took it.
The first punch, the left...OK, maybe he didn't see that coming but the right that followed it? He made no effort to avoid it, or get his gloves up, or move his head. Nothing.
Why?
Just prior I mean one split second before that first shot he heard Cortez say Bell, So I assume he was expecting Joe to do his ****ing job. when a fighter hears a ref say bell usally they assume the bell had rung.
Not necessarily. Even if James Dr wrote him a letter to be excused from gym class ----- It is still a banned substance, so maybe that's why he was stripped BUT it was used for a medical reason which is what steroids are for you are clearly wrong, James was using steroids to use steroids not for medical purposes had it been a perscription his Dr would have sent that letter stating he put james on that.
I was there kid, I was also there when it became obvious he was on the ****, he was sparring with Terry Smith for that fight, he dropped Terry and started to kick him while he was down.
Everybody at that moment knew something was up even Justin Fortune. Hell Maka Foley would openly discuss his steroid use this was prior to the Holyfield fight man what are you talking about?
You dont really beleive he wasnt juicing do you?
Listen the man uses steroids, I was training at wildcard when he was busted for the Ruiz fight. The WBA was all good with Toney being their champion if he could have his Dr provide a letter stating that it was perscribed.
James Toneys Dr would not lie for him which is why he was stripped, and the bout ruled an NC.
Floyd is a ****ing idiot for not taking the rematch... Oscar was clearly at a disadvantage at that weight, But the way the first fight went, Floyd figured it was just too much of a risk....
Honestly when your own father says DLH beat ya, DLH beat ya.
Even though Toney is past prime, I was somewhat optimistic to see that the fight will be at cruiserweight, forcing him to be at 200lbs.
Anyone seen any recent photos of him at a more svelt weight?
:boxing:
This is from August 20th at our Amateur show....
http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z466/Baz00ka1/PasadenaBoxingShow039.jpg
What's with his Kimbo Slice beard?
I have no idea it was odd seeing him again after years, there was a long line of people waiting to get in, Toney cuts in front of everybody... as I am wrapping my kids hands, im like look at this ****ing fool, then one of the USA members stops him, why? cus there is a fee to get in.. 5 dollars but James had a fighter there so it wasnt like he had to pay...
He looked at him and said.... Man you know who the **** I am... as soon as he said that I busted up, i mean what are they going to say in response?
James looked over at us.... hey kid, this your boy....? its been a while since I have seen him and I was more shocked at the weight loss than anything... the craziest thing of that day, is that while his fighter was fighting the ref was making some questionable calls, and Toney went nutz and started going off on the ref and almost costed his fighter the fight, James stood up when they warned the fighter of I think a low shot...
Are you kidding me? are you ****ing kidding me... the ref warned james to sit down or he would be DQd.... James went off again, I have the whole thing on Video its funny as all ****...
Seems like people are more into KO's but for a guy to stand in the pocket, slip, duck and roll punches while getting his off is more impressive for me personally than KO's in most cases.
I agree, I loved when Evander fought in his prime especially that fight with Qawi, you had a bit of everything in that fight, that syle I have no problem with, the style I really do not care for is the high speed tag so to say, I mean okay Baldomir Mayweather that was a dominant performance but a **** one at the same time....
Mayweather Judah and even though I dont think much of Judah it was a very interesting fight, and I beleive had the riot not happend Floyd would have stopped Judah late, after the fourth Floyd made two adjustments, he brought that left hand up cutting out Judahs right hook and jab, and he worked the body both sides... that was almost the best work at welter I have seen him operate at if not the best....
Then again there is the Cotto Judah fight as well... both styles if fought right can be very eye pleasing... but when its more the case of just being satisified with winning rounds and getting to the finish, I am not going to lie to myself... I just dont care to much for that...
if you have an opportunity to step on the gas why not speed up a little and see what else you can do especially when you have him beat in every other area as it sits.
the thing is that potshotting is actually easier than pressure fighting, yet everyone in this forum seems to think potshotting = super skills while pressure fighting = bum
anyone that has boxed knows, try throwing one or two punches then running off into your defence, now try outworking and ko the guy, floyd(super-mega-ultra skilled boxer) knows this first hand when everytime he tries to pressure a guy ends up on queer street
what happened to his super defence?
I agree that potshotting is much easier, no doubt, a banger who sits inside the eye of the storm takes many more risk himself, while the potshotter doesnt even like to go out in the rain
One need only look at the marquez-vasquez fights to see how stupod that statement is because that was pressure fighting at its finest and involved an incredible amount of skill.
You mean the one in which Vasquez quit.... Just ****ing with you man...
PED USER
I agree...... and speaking of Chavez, Meldrick Taylor was like a ****ing Hybrid slick boxer if he wanted, brawler which is the Philly side of him, I really enjoyed watchin the lil fella...
A boxing style does not determine whether you'll be slick or not. Slickness stems from natural instincts, it's being gifted with great vision and reflexes.
Are y'all saying then that if Wifebeater was trained under the Cus D' Amato style that he won't be slick ?
Mike Tyson was a slick come forward fighter in his heyday. Of course, when you have to get in the trenches the chances of getting hit gets higher, it's just the nature of the beast.
A good determining factor on what type of style will be best for a particular is the jab. Fighters with terrific jabs end up being the boxer type, if you have no jab and you're short in stature then your options lessen.
You are right and I threw tyson out there in the early going he was a slick raw brutal bastard in his day.
could you imagin Mayweather with Cus? **** I mean you dont have to have big power Cus could take those skills and make him an animal.. he has the ability to make you miss and make you pay, and Cus would optimise that talent and Floyd would likely get more knock outs.
Fernando Vargas pre Tito, was a bit on the slick side and a good boxer puncher, but he knew how to evade shots very well he had this corky ****ing headmovement sometimes and it just seemed to work
Both are skilled but id say the slick boxers are more talented, but brawlers and bruisers that are good at it are also very talented at what they do, plus everyone rather see a war than a guy hitting and moving all night, atleast i do personally
I wouldnt say they are more talented because there is no messuring stick really, I mean a prime tyson was the total package back in the day, once he left cus he became one demensional.
I think Slick boxers are a bit more disiplined in the ring though.. but then again you can say that about the bangers as well..
Because apparently skill = the conventional techniques they teach you
Its like saying Kevin Youkilis is not a skilled baseball player because he doesnt use the conventional batting stance and swing
But that doesnt make sense it gets the job done, I mean it takes skill to get someone to fight your fight, I mean sure over all hit and dont get hit is the idea, but if you have a style that is a pressure style or even a great defensive style it takes skill to make sure that your fighting your type of fight through out the fight. thats what skills are.
its not that ohh this guy is a pressure fighter he is one demensional, or this guy is a saftey first fighter hes a ***** who runs. it takes skills to fight at your pace and force your style weather your a boxer or a banger.
I am just sick of these cats round here acting like there is only one style that means you have skills that is false....
I saw your boy fight, nice job.
The skill of infighting is an art performed in the trenches by dogs that were trained to fight, taste some blood and it's on........
When I was amatuer I was trained as a classic boxer. I was instructed to watch hours and hours of Ray Robinson fight films, I did watch those films over and over and with a fine mans help those moves were emulated and worked upon. Suddenly I was walking the ring and controling the bout using primarily my jab with good feints. After years of being Gregs protege' suddenly he was gone and I had basicfly nobody looking at me/training me.
After awhile I hooked up with a new trainer when planning my pro debut. This trainer transformed me into a terminator type pitbull in the ring, so violent and so brutal on both sides to learn this style of fighting. Constant pressure never letting your man rest. With this transformation came the need, not to knock them out neccesarily or to hurt them. Whatever it took I needed to feel that I had taken their heart. It's a great weapon of a pressure fighter and a great reward when their innevitable fate has been sealed and they know it. The confidence and heart drains from their eyes.
If I had your boy to train the first thing that I would do is get him to learn to control a fight with head movement and feints. He likes to jump in with his shots, more so he actually needs to jump in because he doesn't know how to work his way in yet.
From the Lamar bout it was obvious that he has experience. If he knew how to gain that extra little step forward to then use his constant aggression more effectively while throwing in a comfortable range. It's all in the headmovement and feints, that half a step needed is found in head movements and feints.
It takes time and it takes getting dotted on your eye because you were a second too slow to get comfortable in that pocket. I used a similar roll technique like James except but instead of setting back I always brought the fight to my opponent. Getting my feet aligned with the rolls was an awsome tool to have while rolling in. Use the feints and your headmovement to find his timing. Roll a shot and fire it back in bunches.
The constant pressure in time will actually make an opponent fire shots when you get inside of their comfort. Have your boy look for that range while applying pressure to get inside of his comfort zone. Standing just outside of that imaginary boundry and throw a feint. If the guy bites theres that one step needed. If he doesn't bite you work your way in/out using your eyes for shots incoming.
Wrote alot but I wanted you to fully get what I was saying..........Rockin':boxing:
Rockin,
Thank you much sir and I agree with you 99.9% the other 0.01% well I am a beleiver in that jab if he gets that double jab going that will help him move inside while keeping his balance as well, but you know you work with fighters no matter what the **** you tell them during the actual fight these guys just dont ****ing listen...
you tell them and you tell them but it just doesnt get through to them sometimes...
The lamar fight, that guy had an ugly akward style and it just didnt make for an easy or good match we got the win but not how we wanted, we dropped him early but ruled a slip...
in the gym he hits all the switches, double jabs, feints, nice head movement, paitence the whole bit, but come fight time its like he wants to blitz the man out of there...
Thanks for the feedback... I think to date his performance against Ivan Jones is one of the best as he put everything together.
Both take skill but u can go to your local bar, club and find guys who brawl...hitting and not getting hit is definitely the harder skill to learn...especially when u can stick to the game plan against a brawler!!
Thank you, and it takes skill for a brawler to make the slick boxer fight....
Example of this, well take a look at Ibeabuchi vs Byrd....
Example of slick boxing skills out working the Banger, Take a look at PBF vs Chico
theres loads of pressure fighters in history who is considered extremely skillful.
You're generalizing too much.
I dont think so, I rather think that some of the new people to the sport really dont understand this aspect of the game. I aint taking a cheap shot at them I am just pointing out, that alot of them tend to think if you get hit if your a pressure fighter you are one demensional and thats not true.
one demnsional basicly means what it say, you only know one way to get the job done. But when you look at alot of these guys like we discussed, they had multiple ways of getting inside making it their fight and getting the job done.
I think all to often people assume if your a pressure fighter your easily beatable if a fighter just stays on the out side and sits behind that jab.
That is un true
its a way of some people to separate themselves from the so called "lesser" fans.
somehow appreciating pot shoting makes you a "true fan" rather than liking brutal ko's
Thats up for debate as well when you are clearly out classing a feather fisted fighter, I think you should try and close the show even if you dont get the Kayo try to rock the mother ****er dont just be comfortable in a pot shot win.
Sure that is skill, but its not an eye pleasing one all the time when its a boring ass one sided affair...
I think Peterson is a live guy in this fight. I mean Khan has done better with Roach, but everything Khan has today is the same **** he had when he got knocked out by Presscott, its not like he has improved he is the same.
A judah win means squat, every major fight Judah stepped up in he lost, and was knocked out By Cotto and Tszyu, was about to get stopped by Floyd, was on Queer street by feather fisted Baldomir, and was dropped by feather fisted Spinks.
What other significant wins does Khan Hold? a Narrow decison over Maidana? Maidana struggled with a washed up Morales...
I mean I aint saying that Peterson is going to mop the floor with him, what I am saying is Peterson has a very good shot at hurting some feelings come fight night.
Honestly I dont know why, but he does have a chip on his shoulder and lets be real American fans dont really warm up to british fighters who are like that.....
Second time I've seen that video, and I find it really interesting. It's hard to argue against it because it's live pictures.
its supported with evidence of the fight it self, and once you have that looking in your eyes the truth about what kind of fan you are will show itself.
Then you have fans and loads of them arguing this was legal, the only thing that makes this kind of win legal, is becuase Cortez failed to do his job, and so did NSAC.
and here in their own rules well you can question the win, you have a clear arguement here that it might not have been legal. George Foreman saw this video and said, "Just watching it gives him a stomach ache, I am glad I dont have to live with that win"
But the Flomos will likely say Big George dont know **** about boxing
Completely agree dude, 26 landed punches in 4 rounds. Ortiz was killing it just landing brutal combos everywhere! Sick analysis man!
If youre going by compubox stats then youre a complete biased moron
I agree Compubox is biased and here is a bit of evidence to support that, also if you go by the eye of Ortiz and claim Floyd was kicking his ass using that as evidence to support your arguement, well Floyd was much more bumped up after his fight with DeLahoya, which he barely won,but since he has bruises and swelling obviously Oscar really won right?
amir khan is hated because his trashtalk towards mayweather.
Im a mayweather fan, but if he doesnt fight pac or martinez then atleast
fight khan! fuuuck...
Really? I would have never guessed you were a Floyd Mayweather fan.. Thanks for the info
I don't mind the guy but I can see how his "trash talk" and twitter rants might rub people the wrong way.
Exactly he hasnt done **** yet in the sport to start acting the way he is...
I don't ever say negative things about other posters but you are an idiot, who lacks to ability to comprehend boxing brilliance
George Foreman doesnt agree, but hey George dont know **** about boxing.