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Whether it was underestimating or not being prepared for Duran's style is debatable, but Ray was definitely prepared for the second fight. underestimated Duran who was 71-1 28 year old going into this fight. Wow. Maybe again I need to school you. Leonard was caught on tape discussing with jackie gleason just how hard of fight it would be vs duran at durans training gym. Dundee knew duran from ages ago and new that duran would be a beast. Now they did think that ray could get him out via body then to the head and that Duran was not the beast at welter he was, but duran the fight b4 vs carlos palimino showed signes of greatness. It was simply the fact that Leonard did not employ his greatest assets the first fight.

floyd mayweather has beaten who at the level of a sugar ray leonard, or close. Name one. At 147 what great fighter who was peak and a natural 147 pounder has ever beat. Did he not get a split decision vicgtory over a limited shot, one armed 376 year old past his prime dlh and only won rounds when DLH was winded as the Dlh jab controlled the fight, yes boring but effective. yes dlh missed every shot when mayweather was on the ropes, but the jab was effective. How in the hell would Mayweather deal with a peak SRL. OMG. A peak ray that would have every advantage on him including equal speed, and reflexes, more reach, more power, both hands, great jaw, equal stamina, ring smarts.... and more kller instinct and experience fighting duran and hearns... peak great fighters.. Yes duran was only 28 years old.

Here is the mistake that many of us are making when judging these two legends. Regardless, that was not the best Sugar that fought Duran in fight 1. Duran had a game plan, Leonard didn't. Durans aggression, stay in your face style, and cutting the ring off kept Sugar from boxing and coming in and landing his fast/hard combos. Frank this is false. Duran never cut off the ring n the first fight. Please look on you tube nd post when. I have seen the fight over a thousand times. Not one time did ray attempt to use lateral movement and was cut off. Not one time in the first fight. Its funny people keep trying to exaggerate what happened that night. Duran beat leoanrd when leoanrd tried to go toe to toe with him. Leonard never effectively tried to move behind the jabe etc.

Floyd's an ATG, but SRL is likely #2 all time at WW behind SRR.Floyd would have no answer for the reach, height, speed and most of all Power that SRL would bring in combination. Floyd's worst nightmare. 100nd percent i agree

7:49 Duran rushes Leonard. Leonard falls back to the ropes, and moves laterally to the side, but when he does, Duran throws a hook that landed on Leonard’s body or guard. Either way, Leonard’s lateral movement still wasn’t fast enough to avoid the hook all together. 8:04 Ray shows some beeeeaaaautiful lateral movement (is my check in the mail?), but he still gets tapped to the liver at the end it because Duran turns with him the whole time, and the shot makes him hold near the ropes. 8:44 Ray trying to move laterally and box, but then Duran cuts him off at the ropes, forcing Ray into a flurry just so he can put off some of that pressure and move out of there. 0:39 Slow motion of the last flurry where Ray was moving to the side. Leonard got the better of it at the end, but watch two things: 1. Duran’s knees and how close they are to Leonard’s. Duran is way too close to get away from because he has fast legs himself. And Ray had been moving laterally just before this and still couldn’t get away. 2. Duran using hooks and widening his stance to keep Leonard from moving laterally. Leonard had to hit him with a clean hook to get away. 2:22 It’s not “feeling out” (as you claim) if they’ve already had crazy ass exchanges earlier in the fight lol. Leonard tried boxing Duran for a change, and Duran OUT-boxed him back. They were both jabbing and moving laterally. Duran used a jab to distract Ray, meanwhile sneaking his left foot closer and threw a right hand, missing ray with it, but putting him in perfect position to throw a shorter hook that Leonard didn’t expect from that distance, and almost put him on the floor. That’s how Duran out-boxed taller opponents with his short lightweight reach later in his career. Leonard didn’t see that in time to move to the side. 9:53 Leonard tried to back and move laterally to his right, but Duran stopped him from doing that with a right hook. Ray ended up holding to stop the exchange for a second. I’ll stop here for now. Mail me the keys to your house, and I’ll comb through the rest of the fight for you. will someone tell this idiot the difference between lateral movment like ray did vs duran 2, daveyk boy green, hearns 1, olympics, hagler first 4 rounds... Jesus you have no idea what your arguing about. Even the announcer on the vid you sent, outline " ray is not dancing coming str8 at duran etc starting at 7;32 mark" Man your trying to save face. This is not lateral movement. Its just simply stephing back from a punch and trying to set duran up off the jab at first. Maybe we need to send you tapes of ray showing lateral movement. Compare any of those fights(i listed below to leonard duran 1) especially duran2 - you will so no lateral movement. None. Leonard simply in the middle of the ring. He never got the ring cut off. You must never have boxed. Leonard never tried to provided angles etc. Just compare leonard vs duran 2, haggler, hearns, green. What duran did do was simply back ray up. That is true. Leonard fought straight ahead, no side to side movment. None. Never on his toes. Never. Duran pressed the issue , leonard tried to fight him on durans terms the first fight lost a very close fight. 2nd fight duran tried to come in, was not able to make ray fight his fight, got beat, accept it. and yes no 1000 payment as you have shown exactly what i indicated no lateral movement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhX72YHFGFs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yywrt2TCNKw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbP1lwLYSE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHM7zrmm4_U Now

In a post-fight interview, Duran said he would not retire as he had said immediately after the fight, and that he wants to beat Leonard in a third fight, because they were 1 to 1, and Leonard hasn't settled the score and has to give him a rematch. When hearing that, Leonard said he would never fight Duran again (gave some excuse about the media). I agree that Leonard is a great fighter, and I'm a Leonard fan too because of the things he's done in his career. That's why I don't believe he was dumb enough to fight Duran head-on unless it was the best strategy he could have used that particular night (which I believe it was). You mentioned rounds 5 and 6 in the first fight. You watch them again. Leonard didn't win them boxing Duran and moving about. He won those rounds with flurries from inside the pocket when being pressured, and standing his ground. When Leonard was moving and using his jab at the beginning of 5 and 6, you're watching what Leonard is doing, but you're not watching what Duran is doing. Duran took his foot off the gas and boxed with him a little to give himself a break. As soon as Leonard landed long, hard hooks in each of those rounds from the outside, Duran put the pressure back on and drove Leonard back into the ropes (where Leonard successfully fought him back). You act like Leonard had a choice of when to box that night... that's not how it went down. Duran was forcing Leonard to fight like that, and rounds 5 and 6 prove my point, not yours. the great thing is that we have video to totally refute what your saying. rounds 5 and 6 ray started off each round landing left hook leads... then they he used slight movement not major lateral movement but a little.... No one ever said duran did not force ray to fiht toe to toe. Duran clearly was the aggressor, and yes he forced ray back. But ray had since the olympics had lateral movement as a tool if he ever wanted to use it. He never TRIED NOT ONCE. I will mail you $1000 if you can go to a part of that fight were ray tried to use lateral movement and duran stopped him. Not duran was the aggressor etc. but Leonard using lateral. YOu do no what lateral movement is.... and duran cut off the ring and forced ray to the ropes. YOu will not find it, and everyone who reads this can go check and come back to you and tell you your dead wrong. Leonard lost that first fight barely, (total of 4 points between all three cards and had one round been scored for ray that was scored for duran on each judges scorecard ray wins) because of the style he willingly employed. That not to say he was not magnificient in doing it, because to beat a ray leonard at 147 you had to be great, and duran was. However, if leonard boxes, he beats any version of duran that ever lived.

leoanrd vs Mayweather would not be a close fight. People when was the last time Mayweather fought a good fighter with a Jab. Hmmmm DLH, and he was being controlled with that the first 7 rounds and was avoiding the left hook, so he lay on the ropes and tried to smother his shots, and avoid them then whe DLH tired and picked him apart. What in the hell would he do with a peak SRL, who was bigger stronger, faster had a better jab (dropped people with his jab ask Benetiz a all time great) and a jaw out of this world until he came back from retirement...Plus unlike DLH Ray had not only a jab and left hook but he had a great right hand, what DLH did not have. When was the last time Mayweather fought a great guy who was at his peak at welterwitght. Hmmm never maybe. when was the last time maywether fought a all time great period that was peak.... Hmmm When was the last time Mayweather fougght a great or good fighter with reach advantage and was not old. Corrales did not have the reach advantage. So Mayweather some how fights a top 2-3 welterweight of all time, who is just as fast, has more reach than he has ever faced, faster, better jab, hits harder, has the foot speed how shown the ability to destroy the shoulder roll (his daddy) great jaw, Leonard alwasy had great stamina and would not tire out like dlh ( remember his 15 round war with duran). Not sure what fighter at 147 you all saw in Peak ray, but Mayweather at 147 would get annilhated, as his entire counter punching and not getting his is based of of not having to deal with a jab, being faster, not dealing with reach advantage. Reach neutralizes speed a jab does too, combine all 3, you have mayweather having to take the fight to Ray leonard, who would welcome this all day long. This fight at 147 is not close, just like if Ray leonard fought Roy jones at middleweight.

I wouldn't say it was Leonard adapting as much as it was Duran shooting himself in the foot during training. Leonard fought a weaker, weight-drained Duran the second fight. He even admitted that he knew Duran would fatten himself up to 200 lbs between fights, and that his strategy was to get him in the ring as fast as possible to weaken him. Not saying that it was Leonard's fault or that Duran was a supreme fighter. I'm just saying that skill for skill, Duran was every bit the boxer and every bit as smart as Leonard was, and Leonard was every bit the brawler and warrior that Duran was. Their first fight was close, and if Duran had the discipline to stay within fighting weight between bouts, the second fight and every fight after would have been like the first two Pacquiao and Marquez fights, maybe closer. you have no idea what the hell your talking about. Leonard gave away the first fitht because he fought flat footed. After the 1st four rounds of the 1st fight, leonard actually won a majority of the final rounds as indicated by the final sore. losing by a total of 4 points between 3 scorecards. Now The 2nd figght your on her hyping a false myth. Duran was training as good in the 2nd fight as he did the first fight. Get his book, not a other author but his autobiography, hands of stone where he set the record straight. He was in perfect shape. You can get the youtube vids of him at the ali fight before their 2nd fight when he was already within 5 pounds of his target weight. Leoanrd easily was and always will outbox duran if he decided to box. Duran was a ll time great, but he had to get planted just like hagler to throw, and leonard lateral movement kept him off balance and reaching. Then as the fight was going on, leonard was setting traps for duran and catching him with shot after shot. Go look at the 8th round. Oh I always love to discredit those that try to say leonard rushed this rematch. You do know that Duran has more time off in this fight between fights than he had with all others since 1973. 5 full months. Many duran followers never accept that boxing is about styles and leonard when he boxed would always beat duran, when he slugged it was a close fight, but duran being the aggressor and backing ray straight back got the nod, deservingly so.

That's my point. During the early rounds of the first fight, Leonard was moving and trying to give him angles and create distance. The problem was Duran was with him the entire time, so Leonard stopped trying to avoid the attacks with footwork and held his ground instead of wasting energy without countering. It was the right thing to do, because Duran was right on him and could have caught him going straight back or with body shots when he was stepping to the side (that was happening early on). Second fight, it just wasn't the same Duran. Leonard tried moving and it worked this time, so he did it the rest of the fight. Wasn't it Leonard who refused a third fight for so long? Why would he avoid a third fight if he was confident about that second fight? What fight was you looking at. Leonard had a game plan to knock Duran out the 1st time. He & Dundee thought Duran could not take body shots, & he outside of the Palimino fight, had 8 fights @ welter & did not look that good. Ray showed no, 0. Zilch lateral movement until the 5th round. Both the 5th & 6th rounds he showed just a little lateral movement& he was able to win both of those rounds. You may need to go back & revisit the tapes

I can get even more specific than that. Watch the first fight, round 2, the exchange just before Duran hurt Leonard bad with a hook. Leonard was showing lateral movement, making Duran miss, moving his head... beautiful boxing. But guess what, Duran was right there making him miss too and moving laterally himself! When he got hit with a hook, he had to go straight back into the ropes because Duran widened his feet to catch him with hooks in case he stepped to the side. Trying to box with Duran from longer range got Leonard the worst punishment of the fight. So why would he do that the entire night? Dude your smoking ..I have seen the fight over 1000 times and i will post a youtube link. Leonard showed no lateral movment in that 1st fight til round 5. None. What your referring to was simply the start of the round, feeling out, jabs etc. Ray got caught with a left hook. You picked out one punch, Ray also got hit again in round 4. After round 4 what happened. Ray became more confident landed punc for punch, and when he boxed duran in rounds 5 and 6, then the 2nd fitht, Duran had no answer. Maybe you should read the history of the first fight. Ray and Dundee had studied duran for a while. Duran was supposed to move up and fight leoanrd earlier, but he looked bad in first fight at welter, and Leonard then decided to fight Benetiz. After the benitez fight Ray was signed. SIGNED to fight cuevas. However, duran people got this changed, no one knows how, but instead of cuevas it became duran. Ray studied duran and thought he could knock him out, and that because of Dejesus that did not use much lateral movement he could outbox him and that he would be stronger. This is from Rays own words, in a fist full of sugar. Get the book. Weeks before the fight duran and ray got into a exchange at a press conference where they pushed and damm near came to blows and again when duran flipped off ray and his wife in montreal. Ray wanted to ko duran. Now what many people forget is that in many fights Ray chose to not dance or use lateral movement. He was flat footed vs Beneitz, Kalule, Price etc. Vs duran he tried unsuccessfully to go toe to toe because that was his stated game plan going into the fight. After the fight he changed styles and no duran was just fine for 2nd fight. Had he won we never would have heard anything. But when he lost the first thing we heard was he said no mas. False. Then that he had cramps false. Duran himself said on page 202 of the hands of stone autobiography, he said "No quiero pelear con el payaso" Meaning I do not want to fight with this clown. No he had cramps nothing, he was simply frusterated, and did not want to ko'd. I dont know about the ko, but he was starting to get hit flush. I suggest you watch both fights again. I know each round totally. If you claim he was using lateral movement and duran cut off the ring in the first fight, your smoking crack. He was not. the best you can claim is the round startd round two the were feeling each other out, jabs etc... in teh center of the ring, then ray got hit with a short half left hook that backed him and the fifht was on. NO LATERAL MOVEMENT. 7:49 mark of this video. NO lateral movment. Study up bro. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLd_6JDLiT4

I've boxed. Now tell me which one of those other fighters rushed Leonard as fast as Duran did their first fight? Leonard knew he couldn't do that to Duran that night. His strategy was the right one, and he could have won if a few more exchanges went his way. If he did what you and the dumb announcers (who never boxed themselves) wanted him to do, he would have really gotten killed. Leonard didn't have room to dance, because Duran was cutting off his dance floor all night. Being chased into the ropes and covering up didn't exactly restore Juanita Leonard's honor lol, so I'm sure Leonard would have danced if he could before turning it on late in the fight. Dude your backing my point, he did not dance. Not at all. it does not take a superstar to start out the round on your toes. Ray never did that. Ray always in every fight, does a little trick that boxers know that mayweather and others do, to get room, that is when the referee breaks, you step behind the referee and out into the middle of the ring, Ray never did that, he did that all through the olympics and would do it non stop as a professional. When on the ropes instead and spinning or attempting to spin, and actually languished on the ropes and waved duran in. repeatedly. When off the ropes, he did not step into the middle of the ring to move, he fired back and duran and elected to war. Dudue your sounding dumber and dumber. Again you in over your head. NO one said duran did not rush in, no one says duran was not great the night, no one said duran did not win that night, we and the we is for every single person besides you that saw the fight including duran himself and SRL, that ray elected to war and did not dance. Duran himself knew that if he got under Ray skin, he could win the mind game and Ray may elect to fight instead of box, which is exaclty what Ray did. Again you have not yet showed is when Ray 'TRIED to dance but duran stopped him" Accordimg you you know what was in ray's mind moreso than what ray said himself and the annoucners and every single journalist that ever covered the fight. You dead wrong on this on. I do think you sound like you know boxing, but on this one point you just refuse to undersand and admit that duran simply beat ray that night and the ray that showed up came to war, not box and the ray that showed up in the 2nd fight came to box not war, and the results were different. regardless of how you try unsuccessfully to prove a point that not one person agrees with you on and your own video you posted validates my point video and audio........

sugar ray leonard, never tried to box roberto duran in the 1st fight, and roberto duran, never had to cut off the ring, to find sugar ray leonard...stop the nonssense...sugar ray leonard, was in war mode, the minute roberto duran called his wife a whore in spanish...lol...as soon as roberto duran, rocked sugar ray leonard, who was flat footed and standing in front of him, sugar ray leonard was really in war mode, for 15 rounds... Thank you. I have been trying to tell this dude that.

Everyone doesn't see the fight the way you do. You're going to have to get used to that dun. Lateral movement is lateral movement. Cutting off the ring is cutting off the ring, Anyone can look at the fight and see if it happend or not. I challenge you to produce any segment in the fight where it happened. Go to youtube identify the part of the video where it happened. copy the link into this sight and indicate where it happened I will mail you $1000 If you can't.... then lets move on and stop that crazy noise that Duran make leoanrd fight his fight and cut off the ring, and leonard tryed to box in the 1st fight. Didnt happen. In fact Ray outlined PRIOR to the fight that he was not going to box. But If you want to believe differently , be my guest

Let's stick to the topic. Very good post though. Almost in full agreement. Duran didn't need to plant, but if Leonard boxes, Duran can't beat him. ok i will, but look at the 2nd fight... leonard used back and forth movemnt and duran had to plant and replant, etc. Then he would lung in and ray woudl catch him coming in and in this fight he spent off the ropes and did not allow himself to get pint on the ropes.

Sorry about the thread hijack Frank, but I have to answer this. A longer layoff just means more time for Duran to get even heavier than he ever has before, right? But regardless, Duran had some of the slickest and fastest footwork in boxing himself. People dismiss the first fight as Leonard using the wrong strategy, but if you look at the first few rounds, Leonard tried to move around Duran's crazy charges to the ropes and he couldn't get away from him. He ended up having to clinch or fight back because there was no other option. Khan vs Peterson is a similar scenario, where Peterson rushed him and Khan couldn't use his quick footwork. Peterson was fast enough to cut off the ring like no one's ever done with Khan. The only difference is Leonard was great at holding his ground in close (unlike Khan), and the first fight could have easily gone his way as well. The second fight had Duran charging, but not quite fast enough to catch Leonard. Leonard had enough time to take a step back and then shift to the sides. Call it a weight troubles, call it a brain fart on Duran's part... but for whatever reason he was noticeably slower in my opinion, regardless of what Leonard did. you always appear slower when he are lunging or you have to make up more ground to punch vs ray being right in front of him. Leonard gave him angles and lateral movement.

That's my point. During the early rounds of the first fight, Leonard was moving and trying to give him angles and create distance. The problem was Duran was with him the entire time, so Leonard stopped trying to avoid the attacks with footwork and held his ground instead of wasting energy without countering. It was the right thing to do, because Duran was right on him and could have caught him going straight back or with body shots when he was stepping to the side (that was happening early on). Second fight, it just wasn't the same Duran. Leonard tried moving and it worked this time, so he did it the rest of the fight. Wasn't it Leonard who refused a third fight for so long? Why would he avoid a third fight if he was confident about that second fight? Just lame excuses. Look at the difference in the lateral movement between first fight and 2nd fight, and what ray did when duran tried to tie him up in 2nd fight. Man im really doubting you even saw the fight. Do i need to post the youtube links on here for you. Totally different fighters in Ray the first fight. First fight ray just languished on the ropes ready to fight with his backs on the ropes, send time duran would rush in and get countered then ray would either not be there due to lateral movement or he would tie him and spin or would counter repeatedly and spin off and get back into the center of the ring. Only a couple ot times in the 2nd fight did ray stay on the ropes. Man look at the fights. Look closley at how ray would move back and forth and how duran would try to cut off the ring and when he step forward ray would reverse movement the other way. Also, Look at how in the 2nd fight instead of throwing the overhand right hand which a great defensive fighter in duran, he could easily slip ( and he did in the 1st fight) in the 2nd fight ray throw hooks and upper cuts when duran came in, and repeatedly caught duran coming in. Dude I know ever single Ray leonard fight inside out. Your over your head. I studied the history of the duran and leonard fight. Did you know Ray had a serious flu before the first fight, and was stuck in New york for a while and there was concerns that he would not make it. This allowed Duran time to get the crowd a crowd that Leonard was fond of due to where he won his gold medal,, but duran was up there with the crowd a week before and fight night Duran had just as many fans if not more, and this was new to Ray. Study the fight bro.

Sure I think Floyd could beat Ray if they fought. Floyd is a elite fighter, just like Ray. All Floyd has to do is out box Ray just like he does every other fighter. Floyd does not have to do anything magical. Just be Floyd. I believe Floyd is a more cerebral technical fighter than Ray, plus Floyd has faster hands and the better defense. In my opinion, Ray's best attributes was his mind, will and toughness. Ray could box, but I thought he was a better brawler/stalker. I do not think Ray could outbox Floyd. Ray would come forward and that is why would lose. He would get out-boxed. Easy fight for Ray vs Money. First off Ray had a better jab than Mayweather ever saw with more reach. Just look at how much problem he had vs dlh nab when dlh was not winded. Vs Ray Mayweather would have to get inside and get ih harms way as now for the first time in his life money would have to deal with a jab, and speed combined against a guy that has reach. Changes the game, ask peak mosley vs forrest, even ray vs hearns. Reach neutralizes speed if a jab and timing is employed. Wonder why mayweather never mentioned paul williams name, nor really wanted to fight margorito. Mayweather style is not to fight a inside fight, which he can do when called upon, but not vs a leoanrd. Secondly - Ray will not be winded like mosley or Dlh were. during the 1st 7 rounds money did not do anything andyes the jab was effective. it was starign round 8 when dlh was visably winded that money took over. 3rdly - you all name money as this great great fighter but could you imagine ray leonard fighting the quality of fighters money has faced. OMG, it would be all time embarrassing. 39 year old mosley, 36 year old dlh, cotto who had been beaten soundly several times and is not on the level of a SRl, etc. What great fighter at welter that was peak welter has mayweather ever beat? And we are going to automatically assume based of of what that he will up the ante vs a totally new class of quality than what he has faced. 4thly - If you know boxing you do come foward and be aggressive behind a jab. Ray did that vs the shoulder roll effectively vs mayweather sr. Now ray did not just come forward when he faced a great counter puncher in Benetiz did he. So not sure if you forgot these things. Benetiz at the time was 38-0-1 two time two division champ.. ray beat him dropped him twice in his first championship fight and did not truly become aggressive was the calculated aggressor. finally. Eveyrthing mayweather does would be nullified by leonard except for 2 things, He would when playing defense make leonard miss, heis that good defensively, and at times he would land that right hand lead. But, i know we dont think the pot shot right hands would do anythign to offset a peak ray leonard, i know we saw leonard handle rights from duran, and hearns, hagler etc.. and not blink an eye... We think powder puff punching mayweather at welter gonna hurt ray who never ever saw the deck until he came from retirement. hmmmm. Also, you have to get in to punching range to land. Vs other fighters mayweather has a decided speed advantage and reach advantage... Vs ray he does not have this advantage. He would have to get himself in reach of ray who had the complete arsenal to hit him with and he would get hit and often if he came to fight. This is not him fighting dlh who had no right hand so mayweather could lay back and just watch for the left hook and wait for him to tire out. Totally different fight. He would be made to fight and fight the entire night, vs a fighter that has shown vs much better quality at welter to get it done vs every style even the niht he lost, no way Mayweather survives a toe to toe battle with duran who is 100 tiems the fighter Castillo was who gave peak maywather troubles.

So why didn't Leonard want a third fight soon after, if he thought he beat the best Duran in the second? Seriously. Come on man. Was you around back then. Duran acrtually quit for a while after he quit. He was disgraced back home etc. Plus the big fight was tommy hearns who was 32-0 30 ko's. Not a rubber match with duran at the time. If leoanrd had never made the hearns fight, then he would forever be called a ducker. Then if you forgot he had a detached retina that lmited a lot regarding fights leonard could have made. But no one ever remebers that from 1979-81 he fought the all time toughest schedule ever. 4 top all time pound per pounder ( benetiz, hearns, duran twice) ....Then fought a undefeated jr middle 36-0 then retired came back 5 years later moved up 2 weight classes and beat a only 32 year old hagler who had never lost in 10 years, and just beat by ko his toughest 3 foes.... ( so much for the bs he was shot.... based off of what a tough fight form a undefeated challenger the fight before who was 25-0 with 23 or 25 ko's). All you ever hear is what ray didnt do. Tell me who did what ray did.

As the biggest SRL fan, it would be a long long night for Ray if he ever stepped in the ring with prime roy. Ray as great as he is, depends on his speed and gets hits to much to move up to fight a peak Roy. Peak roy wins a lopsided decision vs Ray.

this is floyd 5th weight division and 147 hearns and rays 1st weight class. kind of unfair IMO. Actually.... Back in ray's day welter where true welters...meaning they weighed in the day off...thus they pretty much weighed around the or less than the 147 limit. Today, is different. A person can train down to make a weight, then add a lot of weight before fight time, meaning, Floyd probalby always was a jr welter or Welter, when he entered the ring.

All the boxing greats have loses, most of them way before they made it 41 fights. Floyd is the best boxer in the last 100 years. Stupid post. All the greats fought better fighters too. Can you imagine prime leoanrd fighting instead of duran, hearns, Hagler, benetiz, fighting 36 year old dlh, 38 year old Mosley, Hatton, Jmm.... You tell me who at welter weight was better, stronger, beat better opponents, faster, better closer.....etc. People pick mosley and have no idea how great Peak leonard was. And for the crack heads that even dream that Mayweather could beat Hearns. Are you freaking nuts. 1st off mayweather will not even fight Williams (a poor mans hearns with out a punch). Mayweather would have to deal with the reach, jab, right hand and left hook... Bad Bad Match up, to beat hearns mayweather would have to ko him, and that would not happen, by lionel richie fisted Mayweather.

DOnt think so it is Pac. PBF is not good when he fights great athletes who have good legs. Clealry I am not a Mayweather lover, but this is the dumbest post thus far. How is it a man 41-0, only one really close challenge Castillo, whom he beat easily in the rematch is no good when he fights any type of style. Maybe some cause him more issues than others, but this is flat out ignorant.

Last 30 years, definitely. He's better than Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran and Whitaker, so who does that leave? Lewis? He's better than Lewis. Holyfield? He's better than Holyfield. And if Pacquiao hadn't refused testing and brought suspicion on himself, I'd say Pacquiao is directly behind Floyd. But now I won't say that because I truly don't think Manny's accomplishments are legit. He is not even in the same conversation with Leonard. Can you point out who he has beaten that was prime and on the same level as a Duran, hearns, hagler? Please help me understand.

Last 30 years, definitely. He's better than Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran and Whitaker, so who does that leave? Lewis? He's better than Lewis. Holyfield? He's better than Holyfield. And if Pacquiao hadn't refused testing and brought suspicion on himself, I'd say Pacquiao is directly behind Floyd. But now I won't say that because I truly don't think Manny's accomplishments are legit. Fuego your own here slamming roy for his resume,,,but you have not answered mine. You saying floyd is better than leonard because of what. he is undefeated. How stupid is that. Rocky marciano was undefeated. Hell Hatton was undefeated at 40-0 until he faced a better fighter. Being undefreated only meants you beat everyone WHO YOU FACED, Has not bearing on the quality. Generally the best shows the ability to beat all comers, all styles, other peak greats. Since your saying he his greater Leonard, then please help me understand who has he beaten that is on par with Duran, Hearns, Hagler. Who. All of these fighrters when Ray beat them was 32 years or less, on huge winning streaks, and outside of Hagler went on to win titles at higher classes. Tell me how Mayweather stacks up...And I have not even mentioned Benetiz, kalule, Lalonde.. etc.

i agree. Not even close. People study Ray vs hmmm all time greats that because of the fact that they are greats themselves its gonna be a great fight and all rays punches will not be landing etc. No look at ray leonard vs hmm chavarini, davey boy green, andy price, geraldo.. these are fighters the equivalent of hatton, 38 year old mosley, 36 year old shot and beaten almost everytime the fight Dlh (when mayweather fought him)... Mayweather skillwise has great skills, but so does everyone else when they fight the caliber of fighters mayweathr fights. Just do yourselves a favor and look at Ray when he fought fighters not the caliber of Benetiz, Duran, Hearns, Hagler. Look at how accurate he was, the speed and power and how he closed the show. Another difference is Ray could be defensive. Look at duran 2. In that fight he fought pretty much like how Mayweather always fights, and Duran who was only 29 at the time 72-1, could not hit Ray.. Has Mayweather ever fought anyone half the quality of a peak duran? Ray came to fight and allowed himself to be in harms way so that he could deliver his punches. So again I am no so sure Mayweather is all that much of a better of a defensive fighter. Its the style they fight. Has Mayweather ever fought a tommy hearns or hagler...

nice sig...................... This is why people are so dammm frusterated by Mayweather.... in each generation you get a classic...ali frazeri...leoanrd duran..Leonard hearns..mclellan benn. hearns-hagler, dlh-mosley..... and we should have Mayweather -pacman...but....gayweather..refuses to give us the chance of this.... roids does not give you heart... They both got in there and fought their ass off, if he had roids in this fight, then dammm, but the fight will remember as a great one......

don't forget roided up :D good one... I thought that was for the 2nd fight?

Not even sure Peak Mayweather beats that DLH.....they both came to fight that night...both a lot faster and stronger and offensive minded 10X more than when they fought Mayweather...Mayweathr caught both of them well past their peak.

don't forget roided up :D i'm looking at mayweather-baldomir and no way mosley beats that mayweather he was bloody brilliant! Peak mosley destroys peak Mayweather...

He will be ranked as high maybe higher. Your smoking my friend.. there are numerous lists out and not one has him about 20...