"I will tell you a story that few people will tell. Going back 20-30 years, there was a young guy named Al Haymon. And Al had a lot of acts as a promoter. Sometimes he would let other promoters in on a date, sometimes he would sell them the date, and sometimes he wouldn't.
"But every time Al sold an act to me, I lost money. That's when I learned my lesson: that Al Haymon is one of the smartest, brightest promoters in the country. I quit being burned (by buying shows Haymon knew were stiffs) and would only work with him (on the successful ones).
"That taught me more than anything else: learning how to read people. It was one of my best lessons. After that, I was the one who arranged to have him brought in by SFX. That's how much I respected him. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Or in his case, get him to join us." – Jack Boyle
Was watching the Wilder-Duhuapas fight and saw DiBella(DbE), Marguiles(Warriors Boxing), and I believe Tom Brown (TGB) all in the front row TV side, enjoying the fight.
There's basically one big, general exclusive, pool of talent, with DiBella, Marguiles, Brown, Michel, Mayweather Promotions, Matchroom Sport, and now Leijah Battah, as the only outfits able to use talents from the common pool to put on their shows.
TGB is basically the promoter for California, DiBella Entertainment is basically the promoter for New York/Northeast, GYM is basically the promoter for Quebec, Mayweather Promotions is basically the promoter for Nevada, Warriors Boxing is basically the promoter for Florida/SEC/Chicago, Leijah Battah is seemingly now the promoter for Texas, Matchroom Sport basically has the promoter rights in the UK, and all of the other markets are simply "up for grabs".
A pretty efficient system, as long as everyone keeps things square
Hi scipio, I actually came to this same conclusion a while ago. The interesting thing about the pbc is the fact that it has so much in common with his concert promotion company. For example if you look inside of a lawsuit by leonard rowe(black promoters association) vs William Morrison agency haymons name is noted over 100 times. In the document it also mentions that haymon hired members of the bpa to promote in their local area for his tours. I think haymons endgame is to have PBC brand name on every major fight that happens inside of the sport.
Obviously OP’s dea ll structure is ridiculous, but when the real deal gets announced, there are going to be some glum looking boxing folk around, from Eddie Hearn (so long dreams of signing a big name) to genrick and killakali.
500 million a year is insane
The OP was talking absolute rubbish (British voice). Stop, FOX is not giving no 104 cards per year deal lol. And why would you want that? More boxing in all likelihood just equals less quality. There will be plenty of big cards and lower level cards via both SHO/FOX/FS1 to satisfy the viewing audience.
I didn't say that I wanted this nor do I think it would/could happen I was simply saying if this were true (which we all know isn't likely) PBC would have to steal fights or work with others in order to fill dates.
Well, how many legit fighters does Tom Brown have anyways that aren't Haymon guys? Which guy does he have independent of Haymon? Dibella has some, but not really the case for Tom Brown.
TR has 54 cards per year, but a good portion of that is international cards. I'm interested in seeing how that plays out as they can't pick up Matchroom cards. And SHO is likely to pick up cards of fighters like Frampton/Fury/etc.
FOX doesn't need a crap load of cards. With SHO putting on about 20-24 cards a year, they only need 6-8 big FOX cards. That will equal big time quality. And then they can put some solid fights from fighters trying rebuild themselves and prospects on FS1.
True 104 is excessive however and this is a really big IF this were true that means pbc would essentially be giving two fights a week and he would have to get the extra fighters from somewhere possibly stealing fighters/fights from espn/toprank deal. Imagine international fights/fighters having the option of being broadcast on ESPN+ or fox sports on tv which as a promoter would you pick?
Yeah I know this is way far off. But know one really knows anything until the deal is announced.
Two years later anyone think this is possible seems possible with Disney buying fox for over 70 billion this dude did call it extremely early on...… if true
Not as insane as 104 shows a year. Fighters be in the ring, Sam Watson saying "Great fight, now get back in the gym, youre back out there again next week"
Well top rank has a deal for 54 fights but they don't have that amount of fighters. If haymon could put lou dibella fighters, tom brown, or any other promoters fighters than its possible.
Honestly, it's actually because Canelo got his deal that others are getting theirs. Canelo was the first big deal DAZN handed out, and at that time people thought they were crazy giving him that much when some of his opponents will be mismatches. That allowed GGG to negotiate his type of deal knowing how much money DAZN is throwing around and in result Wilder was able to get an insane offer himself.
It's just like NBA and NFL contracts. Every year free agents enter the market and end up getting more than the previous best deal even if they aren't on that level. No difference here.
I mean when compared to fighters using the ppv model. They are getting ten and twenty million guarantees on their first ppvs. Their numbers are only expected to grow. Even Anthony Joshua is expected to fight off of dazn for his big event. My point is looking at the ppv market now canelo could make more than 33 million per fight had he just waited or did like ggg did
You're not understanding. Canelo was THE first guy with this deal. All the other deals are essentially leveraged off of his. And when HBO got out of boxing, Canelo couldn't just wait months before signing with someone. DAZN at that time gave him a great deal and better than any other deal.
Yes but because he was first his offer looked huge when their was nothing to compare it to. But now that we know Wilder Joshua and fury are worth 100 of millions for s couple fights its very possible to assume canelo could have gotten a much higher guarantee. If garcia vs Spence is this big of a deal imagine what canelo charlo could have done. A charlo would actually promote the fight. My point is it's good money but it's possible he left some on the table. I could see canelo getting 50m a fight.
It’s not quite a monopsony as there are other buyers in the market. Major assets like Canelo and AJ have been essentially bought by DAZN. And ESPN have also acquired big assets in Loma and Crawford over the past few years. PBC are definitely the most prominent buyer though, there stable continues to swell and likely won’t stop anytime soon. It’s fair to say PBC/Haymon are the market leader but they have not created a monopsony situation.
Your right I shouldn't say its a monopsony rather they have major buying power in the sport probably more in this department than they do in distribution.
Well, he doesn't take money from fighters until they hit a certain threshold. A lot of his fighters are signed to promoters so they get to save money that way as fighters usually have managers as well as promoters. But I don't know how accurate the 15M net worth would be considering he probably made 40-50M off Floyd's two fights vs McGregor/Pacquiao.
No doubt this man has to be a great talker to get so many on board. Most of his fighters, or damn near the large majority give him nothing but love in any interview they give. Not all of course as there is no way he can satisfy everyone and the inactivity is a killer to some.
As for as PBC being a "monsopy" or whatever you want to call it? Of course not as you have two others in the market spending and signing fighters like crazy as well. Haymon obviously has the deepest stable and that helps him get fighters as there are fights there for free agents.
They won't get GGG as if he does continue to fight on, it will almost surely be on DAZN.
As for as not having prospects and that not being important? I disagree big time. Sure they can eventually poach fighters when they get to a certain stage, but they need their fair share of blue chip prospects. Eventually those will be the stars of the company. They got a lot of top names from the 08 and 12 classes but missed out in 16. Balderas and the likes of Ajagba look to be the goods, but they do need more. And they do have other potential stars. But I think something people are overlooking is they will probably end up with Haney and Ennis. If not officially with the PBC, they will fight on PBC like Mikey. Class of 2020 looks great and it will be interesting to see who ends up with guys like Khalil Coe. Hearn is going hard after the young prospects and that is something I was calling from right when the DAZN deal became official.
your right their not a monopsony but they do have significant buying power in the market. I would argue that depending on if they get GGG (which I have no clue if they do or not) that they will become a even bigger buying power in the market.
of course I know pbc has prospects but I guess my point was because they have the ability to poach fighters from other promotions once those fighters either lose a fight or want to make a certain amount of money the idea of developing fighters doesn't have to be rushed as much. Take the UFC for instance a lot of their business is taking major fighters from bellator or ONE etc.
where as others need to hurry in developing talent and seem more prospect oriented.
BoxRec doesn't have him as a promoter on the event. He's not listed on Wilder-Breazeale either.
Exactly he used to do most if not all of pbc shows at the Barclays and all pbc shows north east.
I think there was a falling out after the Tyson fury fight. Or business differences
I thought DiBella was one of the main promoters for PBC fighters? Lou is cool.
He was but lately he hasnt been promoting alot of pbc events seems like there was a fall out
DiBella is still working with Haymon. One of his fighters Sergiy Derevanchenko is fighting on a PBC card very soon.
Tgb has promoted most of pbcs fight lately. It's odd because they've done the shows in New York and the north east which usually go to dibella
He whored himself out for money in a fight he knew he couldnt win nor did he plan on trying to win. A willing pawn in Haymon's plan to make Spence a star.
His career has been propelled as well though
He meant live sports content. That is still one of the most effective programming on television, especially with streaming becoming more and more the norm.
As for as the PBC on FOX deal? It won't effect it at all, or at least I don't think it will. Maybe their next deal it could, but this one wouldn't change unless FOX will want some of the top match ups on FOX and not PPV. But I don't see that happening since FOX is the one that was pushing for more PPVs. They liked their model for the UFC. Only thing you will see is eventually PPVs only being able to be purchased through the FOX Sports app and not through cable distributors like with the UFC and ESPN+.
FOX is going to start showing Smackdown later this year and also have a weekly show on FS1. That is where FOX will be focusing on the most.
I do believe they could renogiate after all when fox rebrands boxing will play a larger role in the broadcasting. Also this could be another step in getting rid of Showtime which will happen
This is huge for boxing becuase now ppv will cost less networks like fox and ESPN will get a better cut and be incentived to stay in boxing and build stars and now it's easier for boxers to make Mayweather money
Doesn't matter whether it's bought by Disney, Google, you name it.
Fox itself might not even last if Haymon continues to provide mismatched fights.
Spike didn't last. Al kept insulting them by offering garbage Lara fights.
Fights have all been competitive so far. Pbc Is in the process of building a brand and a new audience for the sport. No one else in the sport can do this at least not alone. Fox likely anticipated a slower start than however there still figuring out what works for their platform.
its to give him exposure and build up his fanbase...... also hes an exciting fighter who would probably add to pbcs popularity that would explain his constantly being on free tv
keep this thread alive
This is what i think will happen, Dana White had nothing but praise for Al Haymon and said the man was brilliant and easy to negotiate with, white and zuffa will act as the lead promoters and buy out pbc, and fighters contracts,they will create their own belt the pbc belt and force the best to fight the best they will build up amateurs into house hold names just like how ufc built up nobodies into stars in ufc
This is going to help them land a massive tv deal, ufc is looking for a super huge tv deal after the fox deal is up, not only will they have ufc to offer they will have boxing and pbc, its the best move dana can make to get into boxing. He will have all the haymon fighters under his banner.
Dana doesnt need stars he will create them, that guy is the best hype man, look how he did for ronda rousey.
Look for dana white to go after manny pacquiao in december when his contract expires
I have a thread called Zuffa boxing which network for their tv deal. And last year I think you were right on the money. except that I don't think Zuffa will buy out pbc 100% I think it would be more like a joint venture like AL had with Live nation. The reason I am bringing this up now is because if they offered mikey Garcia a deal They would need a platform to show him on. One that can build his brand more than showtime. I think its either espn or fox
true, but they didnt keep him on just for his good looks. They obviously value his input in some capacity......
very true Dana white does bring extremely valuable insight into how the business works and dealing with the fighters. all of which are things he could bring with him to boxing
swagger maker
Hater, dana white is the best hype man stop hating, he took ronda to the next level, the ufc brand made ronda and conor without it they wouldnt be stars
Great thread Mate!!!! still holds up one year later.
Another great thing about Dana white is because he has actual knowledge about the sport hes able to hype up guys who are competitive but don't have a name, brand, style, or charisma about themselves into interesting characters. Just call dana white the swagger maker
There is a big difference between Haymon and White. Haymon gets top dollar for his boxers while White runs a dictatorship and bosses his fighters around and pays them very little. He runs the UFC completely and it's his way or the highway. That won't work at all with boxers who are used to being well pay, calling their own shots and keeping most of the money they make. Haymon's fighters rarely fight the best. Sometimes they do but often they don't. Do Wilder and Danny Garcia fight the best every time they fight? I don't think so. White isn't going to take over boxing and make the best fight the best for peanuts like he does in his UFC monopoly. That just isn't going to happen. Boxers are too used to making good money and calling their own shots. They won't stand for being bossed around and paid much less the way White does his UFC fighters.
Fair point and I think this is part of Haymons long term goal. He and Mayweather wanted to get into the mma business back in 2013-14. Plus UFC fighters are complaining about pay with Haymon going to be working with Endeavor they would have a person to go to. Making room for him to be over UFC fighters
I could see some sort of partnership working between Haymon and White. Sure, both are alphas, which can be tough, but in alot of ways they are polar opposites. Haymon is more about results, and less about optics. If he can get what he wants, he doesnt care about the PR. White on the other hand seems to be more concerned about public perception of him. I suspect he would accept less than he wants if the public perception was spun to make it seem like he got more lol
Great point but you have to know that Dana white is just the face not the brains or the owner. Endeavor/Lawrence epstein has the final say not dana white.