abdelfadeel

patterson aside i wouldn't say any of them were exactly atgs ... more like good/solid. Williams was dangerous and zora folley was solid and it was impressive the way liston handled them so devastatingly but they are hardly that great (and you shouldn't have included wepner). Again I'd probably favor Liston due to style but with little or no confidence in that. I consider only Patterson an atg. I think the others were great. Their is a difference.

Clay vs liston was fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!! shut the fuk up idiot no one is denying that.

So let me get this straight Abdel... You are comparing a match up between Mike Tyson and Liston, to the performance and outcome of Liston's opponent PATTERSON! Patterson at 189 and 194lbs respectively in both their fights, who had a much softer body composition than Tyson at 215-220lbs who, at his length, looked like a starving greyhound. An UTTER featherfist and ultra fine glass jaw vs Tyson, an ultimate power puncher and ironm chin. I repeat, your telling me THIS Floyd Patterson... http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/boxer_categories/visiting/cards/card_patterson_floyd.jpg Is in any way a comparable opponent than THIS Mike Tyson? http://nattyornot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/mike-tyson-huge-muscles-bodybuilding.jpg That's like me squashing an ant and then claiming that because I crushed that ant I would also be able to crush an elephant, simply because they had the same trainer/style. THIS sounds more plausible to you than "ELEPHANT STOMPS ME". Your are an absolute fool and for any reasonable person, your whole idea there was carried away with the garbage the moment they clicked on those images. Floyd Patterson was one of the weakest HW champions ever to have graced the sport but he can be excused for this because HE WAS NOT A HW as we would describe one today. He is testament to EXACTLY what I spoke about Liston. Liston never beat anybody who was not a CRUISER or a BUM, or on a loss streak, or combination thereof. THIS^ is the record of Liston, comparable to butterbean. Explain HOW he would beat Tyson? He isn't fast enough to land punches on Tyson. He isn't skilled enough to box Tyson. He isn't strong/tough enough to withstand Tyson. Landslide victory for Tyson. I made the Scaff comparison for a reason, not to degrade Liston *which I admit it does, BUT.. Liston was slow as a snail (like Scaff) Liston could hit pretty hard for his size (Scaff was big boy) Liston was extremely uncoordinated (just like Scaff) Liston to take a little bit of damage (again, Scaff) I will give you one thing. I think Liston could have beaten every previous HW. I think he'd have been too big for Rocky. I think he might have even beat Joe Louis but that would be a good fight. If you had claimed Liston would beat Louis, that would have been reasonable, but he doesn't even play within 3 leagues of Tyson. I am a fool? Who is the one who got banned from the classic section? Liston wasn't uncoordinated Liston was only legit down once in his career. Why am I responding to a troll. Just stop talking to me, next time you see something that isn't written troll like don't try to troll me. I find you ridiculous, stick to the boxing color books kid. I like this reasoning better than that bull**** about Liston's enormous reach advantage actually being a huge disadvantage. But it's still bull****. Probably it's best if you don't chose, for some unknowable reason, to persistently quote my posts when you are speaking very generally and in no way engaging with those posts. There is something masochistic about the way you clamor for my attention despite the fact that you know I find you ridiculous, and I am bound to tell you so in my reply to you.

Contrary to popular belief, his best range was not inside, it was mid-range. Sonny Liston would not have that hard a time with Tyson.Liston would used the jab to pick off the smaller Tyson and set him up for big rights and uppercuts.Tyson's style was exactly like Floyd Patterson's (Cus trained him also) but with much more power.Sonny can take anything Tyson dishes out,and that would discourage Mike big time.A great heavyweight contender named Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight,bloodying his nose and possibly breaking it.Williams had big time power like Tyson and probably the same amount of speed.Williams was also bigger than Tyson.Liston simply shook off the blows and figured Williams out,eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds.Sonny took Williams down in the 2 round in their rematch.Liston would pound the smaller Tyson around the ring and do what nobody ever did with a prime Tyson and that's dominate him.Sonny takes this in no more than 5 but probably ends this much earlier by 3rd round knockout.

George Foreman is not the GOAT in an absolute H2H sense, I don't agree with that. But he deserves to be talked about in those circles. I totally agree however that Foreman was the best boxer of the 70's AND, even if George Foreman still LOST to Ali, as he indeed did, but then rematched and WON against him, as he indeed undoubtedly would have, then it would be crystal clear that George Foreman, would have joined that class of boxer known as a "dominant" champion, having taken on, and beaten all the big named boxers of the 70's. That combined with his good run in the 90's would elevate him to a level of greatness basically unheard of in boxing ever. So in this sense I can totally agree. We can see how Foreman was overconfident and fought ridiculous in that fight with Ali. We can also see how ridiculous and lucky Ali's strategy (or lack thereof) was is letting Geroge wail on him. And then there's all the other stigmas that go with that fight and the fact he was confinded and couldn't even spar for it. And Ali clearly ducked the Foreman rematch like he did no other. Other than this highly controversial affair, George slugged out Frazier and Norton as if they were nothing. Fighters that imo bested Ali most times they fought. George Foreman was the best HW of the 70's. Fact. How do you know?

no he never stop chatting ****..the talk of a tyson vs forman fight was between 88-90 D'amato passed away b4 tyson beat berbick...so u can piss off with u bs boxing talk go read wiki or something... posters like u make me sick...... Then why did Tyson never respond to Foreman calling him out?

Dude, even without checking I KNOW that Tyson's measurements were larger than Liston's. You can't be more ripped and shorter and of heftier weight combined without having larger muscles in general. And it's clear to see for everybody. Young Foreman had big arms, but other than that he was relatively SKINNY you idiot! He was much taller than Mike is all! Foreman WAS a MUCH bigger boxer than Mike over whole career, but that's because in the 90's he was fattened up AND bodybuilt. There are essentially 2 versions of Foreman... The tall, heavy for the day but small nowadays Foreman of the 70's who was faster, more aggressive, but with a somewhat mediocre chin and who could barely even box.. And the vastly experienced, measured and smarter boxer of the 90's who was even stronger and immensely heftier and with an iron chin, but who'se speed and workrate were obviously weathered with age. If you could combine the features of both Foreman's together, then sure, Tyson would be beat. Unfortunately such a Foreman never actually existed. Only in the minds of OTNB's. As for who had a tougher childhood? I would say Tyson had a pretty rough childhood personally. Not that that has ANYTHING to do with boxing performance. If you want to know what would happen to Liston should he have fought Tyson? Watch Tyson vs Scaff! Liston never once won any fight against what we would today regard as a decent opponent. His opponents consisted, without exception of cruisers and bums and guys coming off of loss streaks and featherfists and always a combination of these qualities too! The only time he met what today would consider a good quality cruiser sized HW... He threw in the towel and took a dive! He failed to KO and then took a dive against chinny little featherfist Clay :lol1: Get out of here with your moronic comparisons! What's next? Jockeys are bigger and stronger than WWE Wrestlers? :lol1: Please list Tyson's measurements compared to Liston's. You'll find Liston's measurements were higher. If you've actually watched any of Tyson's interviews (which I doubt you have) Tyson even said the one man he'd be afraid of facing would be Liston. Foreman's muscles were not stronger with age. Williams, Folley, and alot of others would be considered good oppenents today. More biased garbage. Predictably from you. If you wanna see Tyson against Foreman and Liston see Foreman-Frazier 1 and Liston-Patterson 1

No I don't think Wladimir has a better chin than Foreman. But I am hesitant to buy that Foreman was a substantially harder puncher than Sanders. I think Foreman's shots were more driving than Sander's, screwing with balance more. But I also think Sander's had more snap and pop than Foreman's. What exactly is Foreman's power based on? Let's EXCLUDE the 90's Foreman because there he weighed well in excess of 260lbs! And was heavily strength trained! Focussing solely on 70's Foreman, whom did he KO? Besides Frazier and Norton, he never KOed ANYBODY relevant! In fact he KDed Frazier 6 times who STILL finished on his feet. I KNOW that Corrie would have sparked him out cold in the opening seconds of round 1. He would not be getting up! Then there was Lyle vs Foreman. Foreman couldn't properly handle guys his own size, like Corrie. If Lyle could KD Foreman, so could Corrie. The question who hit harder out of Corrie vs Foreman, is not obvious! Different types of power, that is obvious! Corries is the more dangerous for real HW's! Foreman's power in the 70's is based MAINLY on KOing CW's and bums. Sanders wasn't in Foreman's time zone. Sorry if you can't take it. Foreman could handle people his own size like Chuvalo. Foreman didn't knock out anyone relavent? You think Sanders would ko Frazier? Have you ever watched boxing? Foreman knocked out much better people than Sanders. Even if you can't accept it, it's the truth. I don't think you know about boxing. you only believe what you wanna believe.

- When you compare the punching power of George Foreman to Mike Tyson's, fine, you are in common ground there. Both hit really bloody hard. But you are MORONIC to compare the power of 185lb Marciano, or even Sonny Liston to Mike's! Cooney? I seriously doubt that too, despite his size! Again! Foreman might have had a "stronger" punch than Mike in the sense that they screwed with balance more (a typical thing for push punchers), but they never had the snap and KO power of Mikes. - Should I be THAT impressed with Foreman knocking Frazier off his feet? I already asserted that Foreman's type of power was of the sort to screw with balance. The fact I see is that Frazier got up 6! times and finished on his feet. I would expect ANY of the huge punchers of the 90's, including Tyson to send Frazier crashing to the deck. The difference being, Mike and Sanders would send him crashing there permanently! - Agreed, Foreman had enormous arm punching power. Mike threw his punches from the floor. If your arguing Foreman might have been able to throw a harder punch if he threw them properly, that's something else. Fact is, he didn't! - You never seen anybody knock someone off their feet? Did you sleep through the 80's as well as the 90's and 00's? - Mike Tyson's power was crushing compared with Louis's, Dempsey's and Frazier's. LOOK at them! Then look at Mike! - If Frazier hit Chuvalo so hard, why didn't he stop him! - Mike Tyson's left hook was among the best there's ever been in boxing, TRASHING any thrown by Frazier. I could point to many, but review Tyson vs Gross. When did Frazier EVER throw a left hook like that! I just uploaded Frazier's highlight reel on another thread, not good! ;) And that was in comparison to Alex bloody Leapai! - Again, you'll have to show me an uppercut finish of Louis's but I already know Mikes was extraordinarily better. And anybody with a set of fogless eyes can see that. So I think we have a consensus agreement that Frazier never beats Foreman. I disagree but at the end of the day It's my opinion

Please don't tell me any of these slow ****s today would beat Frazier.

Unbelievable, you compare Tyson's performance against these 2 to that which occurred between featherfist, chinny, half-blind Frazier who could barely box and Patterson, possibly the weakest champ in history. Incredible! I suppose the Scaff comparison was a bit much too so I deserved that one :lol1: So your saying that despite Foremans complete set of muscles being 2ce the size and the fact he pulled frigging cars and lifted weights in the 90's and beefed up by about 50lbs, that his muscles were not stronger? Not buying that! Williams, Folley etc would never be professional boxers today, perhaps in the CW division but as they were they'd be smashed there too. Again, I don't care what Tyson SAYS in a homage sense about either Liston or Foreman, I only believe in facts. I've also heard him declare he thinks he could have beaten any boxer and he may well could have! I can't see Liston being anything but a first round KO for Mike, for no other reason that he was too slow and unco to land any punches on Mike or properly defend himself. Frazier wasn't feather fisted or chinny. Oh yeah and by the way, I am still waiting for your proof Tyson's measurements were bigger than Liston's.

Unbelievable, you compare Tyson's performance against these 2 to that which occurred between featherfist, chinny, half-blind Frazier who could barely box and Patterson, possibly the weakest champ in history. Incredible! I suppose the Scaff comparison was a bit much too so I deserved that one :lol1: So your saying that despite Foremans complete set of muscles being 2ce the size and the fact he pulled frigging cars and lifted weights in the 90's and beefed up by about 50lbs, that his muscles were not stronger? Not buying that! Williams, Folley etc would never be professional boxers today, perhaps in the CW division but as they were they'd be smashed there too. Again, I don't care what Tyson SAYS in a homage sense about either Liston or Foreman, I only believe in facts. I've also heard him declare he thinks he could have beaten any boxer and he may well could have! I can't see Liston being anything but a first round KO for Mike, for no other reason that he was too slow and unco to land any punches on Mike or properly defend himself. I guarantee you Williams, and Folley would be up there with the klitchskos. Old Foreman was heavier cause he was fatter. If you think old Foreman had more power than young Foreman, I simply don't know where to begin. As for "Again, I don't care what Tyson SAYS in a homage sense about either Liston or Foreman, I only believe in facts." You are lying when you say you believe in facts because if you did you'd see Liston has the advantage over Tyson. Fight Advantages: Hand Speed- Tyson, Boxing Ability- Liston, KO Power-Liston, Size-Liston, Defense-Tyson, Endurance-Liston, Adaptability-Liston, Foot Speed-Tyson, Strength-Liston, Jab-Liston, Cuts-No Advantage, Reach-Liston(84”) and Tyson(71”), Body Attack-Tyson: Total: 8-4-1 for Liston Yet Liston is a first round victim of Tyson, Sorry buddy it's the other way around. (Though not in the first round) It's a shame though because I would've wanted Tyson to win like you did but unlike you, I go on facts. Not personal bias.

Foreman's only "weapon" against Tyson of any relevance, was his chin. His ability to probably go the 12 rounds with Tyson without getting knocked out like the younger smaller boxers he was fighting. His power would have been useless, because Foreman would barely have landed a punch on Mike! Foreman did not hit harder than Mike! Get out of here! Stronger? Yea that may be true. TYou know the mindset of Tyson do you? Pulling the "mental midget" card now are we? Mike Tyson was, even in the 90's, one of the most feared boxers of the generation. Tyson fought most of the BEST boxers, you know, the same sort as Lennox. He did not bother with B grade boxers like Moorer, Ruiz, Byrd or FOREMAN! Whom were of no particular CHALLENGE for him. Tyson was an animal, he chewed friggin ears off, do you really think for a second, that Mike was really going to be scared, of the Grill salesman!!! How do you explain Foreman getting solidly beaten by every decent opponent he faced in the 90's? Even Moorer was giving him a clinic! Foreman's comeback has been described as "Moonlighting". He was never a serious factor. This is revisionist, dishonest bull**** of the worse kind. More reprehensible than that, it is outright deliberate lying to somehow justify the fact that for two years Tyson defended against a couple of unranked stiffs and denied title opportunites to his deserving challlengers. It is outright lying.

meh, every generation thinks they discovered the blowjob... Do you or do you not think Frazier would've been successful had he been fighting today?

I have it.. Handspeed: Tyson (one of the fastest vs one of the slowest HW's all time) Boxing ability: Tyson (fantastic skills, Liston could barely throw a straight punch) KO Power- Tyson (Tyson has among the fastest KO speeds of a far heftier and far higher class of opposition than Liston. Liston never KOed a decent opponent. Size: Liston is rangier, Tyson is heftier Defense: Tyson Jab: Liston Endurance: Tyson (Tyson was an elite trained athlete, Liston was not) Adaptability: Unsure, I'll just give it to Liston Footspeed: Tyson Strength: Tyson (Come on man, LOOK at them!) Body attack: Tyson For me it's a white wash. For me there is no boxer prior to Tyson who stands any chance against him. Except for an extremely lucky Foreman! you're letting your bias get in the way. Liston is bigger as shown in the tale of the tape. still waiting for your evidence btw that tyson's measurements were bigger than Liston's. Tyson more endurance than Liston? Tyson only had 2 ko's after the 6th round. Liston went the distance several times. Tyson hasn't. Liston has the advantage in strength. His muscles were bigger. Something you have repeatedly denied. ou mention Tyson and immediately hundreds of little Tyson fanatics come rushing out waving their excuses around. "It's Don King's fault, it's Desiree Washington's fault, it's his wife's fault, it's Buster's fault, it's your fault, it's god's fault for taking cus" IT'S MIKE'S FAULT GET OVER IT. Liston was one of over 20 siblings and ran away from home when he was a kid and you're telling me Tyson had a tough upbringing?? What, someone killed one of his pigeons? Liston was hounded by police and under threats from the mob all his life. Tyson was 23 when he was soundly whipped by THE GREAT Buster Douglas. Who went on to beat...oh yeah, Douglas was a journeyman. Liston was an old man in comparison and could've gone unbeaten for a long time if he hadn't run into a prime Muhammad Ali. So for a start, when making a fantasy Tyson matchup, you must first ignore all the fanboys who's memory doesn't go back further than 1985. For instance, yourself. The matchup. Liston was one of history's very meanest fighters, and when somebody stood up to Tyson he didn't react well, Tyson would be quivering in his boots under the dark glare of Liston. You say Sonny had questionable stamina, but he went the distance several times, including dropping a decision when he broke his jaw early in a fight early in his career. Liston's a hard man to judge because he was at his prime before he took the title from Patterson. He was ducked for so long he had aged by the time he was champ. Now we know Liston had the strongest jab in heavyweight boxing, this along with his all around strength and toughness is enough for him to take Tyson into the mid to late rounds. We all know that's a key in beating Tyson as shown by Douglas.. Sonny Liston was everything Tyson wishes he was.Liston was tough and a true bad man without having to say so.Sonny could box and go the distance without much of a problem.Liston had a great chin and probably the best jab in heavyweight history.His power was equaled by very few and maybe only Foreman could match him there. Sonny Liston would not have a hard time with Tyson.Liston would have used the jab to pick off the smaller Tyson and set him up for big rights and uppercuts.Tyson's style was exactly like Floyd Patterson's(Cus trained him also) but with much more power.Sonny can take anything Tyson dishes out,and that would discourage Mike big time. Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight,bloodying his nose and breaking it. Williams had big time power like Tyson and probably the same amount of speed.Williams was also bigger than Tyson.Liston simply shook off the blows and figuered Williams out,eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds.Sonny took Williams down in the 2 round in their rematch.Liston would pound the smaller Tyson around the ring and do what nobody ever did with a prime Tyson and that's dominate him.Sonny takes this in no more than 5 but probably ends this much earlier by 3rd round knockout. And if Cus was alive Tyson would still get beaten. and if he hadn't married Robin Givens Tyson would still get beaten. Sorry if you can't take it.

Foreman is far too slow and lumbersome to have ever beaten Tyson. Seriously! We are not talking about chinny Moorer here, We are not talking about diminutive punch bags like Frazier or Roman. We are talking about Mike ****ing Tyson! Then why did Tyson duck Foreman? D'amato even told him he couldn't beat Foreman.

i also think that tyson, lewis, and tua punch harder than sonny liston. the most dangerous HW puncher of all time, for me, is still joe louis. he might not hit a heavybag as hard as liston, but if you're talking about hitting an opponent who is trying to hit you back, there's no man more dangerous than joe louis in my eyes. left hook - hospital. right hand - cemetary. How do you know they hit harder than Liston? Tocco who has trained Liston, Tyson, and Foreman, said Liston hit harder than both of them. Wepner, Ali, and Scrap Iron all said Liston hit harder than Foreman

- When you compare the punching power of George Foreman to Mike Tyson's, fine, you are in common ground there. Both hit really bloody hard. But you are MORONIC to compare the power of 185lb Marciano, or even Sonny Liston to Mike's! Cooney? I seriously doubt that too, despite his size! Again! Foreman might have had a "stronger" punch than Mike in the sense that they screwed with balance more (a typical thing for push punchers), but they never had the snap and KO power of Mikes. - Should I be THAT impressed with Foreman knocking Frazier off his feet? I already asserted that Foreman's type of power was of the sort to screw with balance. The fact I see is that Frazier got up 6! times and finished on his feet. I would expect ANY of the huge punchers of the 90's, including Tyson to send Frazier crashing to the deck. The difference being, Mike and Sanders would send him crashing there permanently! - Agreed, Foreman had enormous arm punching power. Mike threw his punches from the floor. If your arguing Foreman might have been able to throw a harder punch if he threw them properly, that's something else. Fact is, he didn't! - You never seen anybody knock someone off their feet? Did you sleep through the 80's as well as the 90's and 00's? - Mike Tyson's power was crushing compared with Louis's, Dempsey's and Frazier's. LOOK at them! Then look at Mike! - If Frazier hit Chuvalo so hard, why didn't he stop him! - Mike Tyson's left hook was among the best there's ever been in boxing, TRASHING any thrown by Frazier. I could point to many, but review Tyson vs Gross. When did Frazier EVER throw a left hook like that! I just uploaded Frazier's highlight reel on another thread, not good! ;) And that was in comparison to Alex bloody Leapai! - Again, you'll have to show me an uppercut finish of Louis's but I already know Mikes was extraordinarily better. And anybody with a set of fogless eyes can see that. just because you don't way alot doesn't mean you don't hit hard. look at shavers. "If Frazier hit Chuvalo so hard, why didn't he stop him!" If you've actually watched the fight (which I doubt you have) you would see Frazier did stop Chuvalo. Liston did hit harder than Tyson, Ask Johnny Tocco who managed them both he will tell you the same thing, you said Marciano was smaller so he didn't hit harder than Liston, Tyson's also smaller than Liston so by your logic You have to say Liston ht harder than Tyson. If you are unwilling to accept this, you're a hypocrite.

Bit difficult to make a case for him when he got bounced up and down like a basketball in one of the most one-sided championship fights in heavyweight history. That is unless you think he was that shot and decrepit, which I don't think most rational and sensible people believe. Frazier was never the same after the Ali fight. He won but lost so much in the process. He was in the hospital for so long and he almost Foreman could draw a line on the canvas where he could reach Frazier but Frazier couldn't reach him. Prime Frazier could cross that line. Prime Frazier could time fighters at range. He could time fighters at range and didn't just walk right up to them. He could even time Ali coming in.

Show me a single example where Tyson was "fearful"? This Mike Tyson, even at the end of his career, fought LEnnox friggin Lewis! Whom Foreman openly ducked. Foreman cherry picked all his 90's opposition. Before Foreman got the drop on Moorer, he was getting his brains punched out badly. By MOORER! And when Foreman faced someone comparable to Tyson in Morrison, he got given a boxing lesson. And Morrison wasn't as good or tough as Tyson! Nah, I don't think I'll but into that story. Romantic fog talk! There is not a single indication in any of Foreman's 80 odd fights that he could have ever beaten Mike Tyson. It is absolutely a fact that Mike Tyson was afraid to fight 41-year-old George Foreman--the same Foreman who Evander Holyfield would fight and beat in April of 1991. I have not a doubt that had Foreman and Tyson fought anytime between 1990 and 1997 that Foreman would have knocked Tyson out inside of three rounds. Tyson just has nothing to beat Foreman with; his edge in hand speed would have been a non-factor. He can't beat him by backing away, and he would have gotten his head handed to him if he brought the fight to Foreman. In addition, Foreman was bigger, stronger, tougher and hit harder. Not to mention the fact that Foreman had a better chin and no fear or doubt, unlike Tyson, who was full of fear and self-doubt.. Sorry if you can't handle it.

You are aware Foreman beat his ass twice right? Brad Simmons whooped Johnson's ass twice but he wouldn't beat prime Johnson. your logic doesn't work at all.

Yes and consider that Johannson was punch weak too AND neither a real HW either! Patterson said Ingo hit harder than Liston. So Ingo was definitely not "weak"

ATG? That's just a label for oldies! A fighter either hits hard or he doesn't. Only 1 of those fighters beat Wlad by way of hard punching (Sanders). The gas related stoppage to Puritty (and Brewster too which wasn't even really legit anyway) was synonymous to Foremans own gas related stoppage to Ali! But at least Wlad's opponents COULD punch, unlike Ali! So let's look at Sanders. He is slightly longer than Foreman Heavier than Foreman Hits very hard. Hard enough to spark the big fellas out. He is much more skilled than George. And is several leagues faster than George. So much for your ATG theory. I have reviewed all the relevant fights of Foreman and Frazier over the years. Foreman displayed no appreciable skills, was an arm and push puncher. He was powerful (most powerful of all time is simply fog talk). Nearly all of his opponents were nothing but helpless victims, undersized, overmatched CW's. All I see is a big bully picking on smaller weaker boxers. Frazier is terrible. The times he met what was THEN called B grade opposition, like Bonavena for example, he was up against it. If not for Ali, he would not be famous at all! Labelling Frazier a "puncher" is over the top laughable. 45% KO ratio against 200+ opposition, which pretty much all of those were only JUST over 200lbs, not like the 235lb average opponents of WK. Joe Frazier was a HW featherfist! In my opinion, he could not punch through the surface tension of water! :lol1: He's not longer than Foreman, Foreman has an 82 inch reach, Sanders has a 77 inch reach. It's funny because you list Sanders's advantages and not Foreman's. You also pointed out Sander's punching power but didn't point out Foreman's who hit much harder. Are you seriously implying Wlad has a better chin than Foreman? No ***** Foreman was only stopped once. Foreman only stopped cruserweights? That's just laughable. Foreman's not a bully picking on weaker boxers. Is Lyle weak? No I didn't think so. How is that Frazier's fault his oppenents weren't heavy? He did what he could with them. Frazier was not A HW featherfist. Frazier dropped Ali. Only 2 other men can claim this. Frazier also stopped Chuvalo. Only 1 other man can claim this. I don't care what you say Frazier was a much better ATG than Grabimir. Wlad isn't even an Atg. Just shut the **** up biased clown.

foremoan lasted with a prime holyfield after how many years of retirement? that alone proves foreman was more than puncher. youre so delusional Exactly and Tyson couldn't last with a past prime Holyfield.

Wlad beats them both Wlad beating Foreman and Frazier? lol this isn't the comedy forum!

Just because your small doesn't mean you can't hit hard. Sure of course. I've never once claimed that size is everything. But... The heavier you are, without even checking punch qualities, the chances are the harder you hit, and.. The heavier you are, with regards to punch qualities, all else being equal, the harder you hit, and... Mike Tyson was much bigger than Louis, Liston, Marciano, Frazier, Shaver and (insert nostalgic bum here lol), he had an immensely stronger core and everything else than them AND had far superior punch qualities, therefore hit SAVAGELY harder., and... You can see on video that these guys didn't hit a quarter as dangerously as Tyson, even a simple picture would convince most of it's impossibility, and... Statistically, we can see clearly from tables if you'll like me to produce them, that Tyson's KO performance is far higher than these guys, particularly with relevance to how well he holds his KO power too the heftier+better his opponents got. It's clear... Anybody who really believes Mike Tyson could not hit harder than your old school favourites is high! No you never claimed size is everything but you implied it. Tyson much wasn't bigger than Liston. Liston was bigger and stronger than Tyson. as for"It's clear... Anybody who really believes Mike Tyson could not hit harder than your old school favourites is high!" so 99 percent of boxing experts are high?

Wlad vs Foreman would be a good fight. He would absolutely slaughter Frazier. I really hate how everyone of a specific "era" is held on a certain level rather than looking at individual fighters. Frazier's style and dimensions would have been hopeless against Wladimir. Foreman is a dramatically different and much better fighter. The fact that you made a "who would win" thread about Foreman and Frazier when Foreman ran over him twice says it all... A total mismatch As formidable as Wlad is he is simply no match for George. Wlad folds mentally under pressure, and George had a formidable jab of his own, the chin, the physical strength and the punching power to walk Wlad down and obliterate him. Wlad has power indeed but Foreman's speed and accuracy is underrated and his awkward angle shots and sheer will turn Wlad into a piece of meat struggling to survive. Foreman knocks out Wlad in 2 who never had a chance. For what its worth I see old Foreman stopping Wladimir as well. There's absolutely nothing that can make me think Wlad can win this one. A brief personal interpretation of how the fight might play out: Frazier's constant upper body movement partially nullifies Wlad'd over used jab and allows him to cut the ring off, banging the Ukrainian with punishing hooks to the body. Wlad tries to move around the ring, pumping out the jab until his left arm goes numb, not out of choice, but out of necessity in an attempt to keep the relentless Smokin' Joe away from his suspect chin. Frazier continues to pressure, soaking up countless, panicky jabs with little worry. At the very start of round 7 Frazier throws a sneak overhand right that detonates on the point of Wlad's chin, sending him reeling into the ropes and leaving the giant on wobbly legs. Joe doesn't need an invitation to close the show and closes the gap, pounding a Wlad with only defense his mind while against the ropes. Wlad drops his hands after a right hook to the body and takes a huge left hook to the jaw for his troubles that puts his lights out, the ropes guide him to the canvas and Wlad literally sits there motionless. The ref waves it off. Foreman ran over the washed up frazier. Foreman didn't run over the prime Frazier. Foreman even admited this.

Wladimir has never fought an opponent as weak as Joe. Foreman would have an outside punchers chance, as does every puncher. But as Lennox said regarding Rahman vs Wlad... "That's FAT chance!" Yes you're right. Wlad only lost to the atg punchers. all those power punchers like Brewster, sanders, and Purrity. How much of Frazier and Foreman have you seen?

OK, here's a question for the people who claim that modern fighters are better, because of better nutrition/better training techniques/etc: If people, and thus fighters, are really so much healthier and better than they were in the past, why are there so many fat people today? Thank you.