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See the scoring of Pacquiao-Horn and Pacquiao-Bradley to understand why Mayweather wouldn't want to fight Margarito in a WBO title fight in the final fight of a Top Rank contract . . .

Of course not, but if you can't see how it benefited everyone involved IDK what to say Benefited all involved? It ruined Bret's life.

I just feel there's more he could have done to cement himself as one of the greatest. Mayweather is the #1 pound for pound fighter of all time according to Boxrec. How much more did you want him to do?

For Floyd Mayweather, the IV was JUST for Rehydration purposes. You have no idea if that's true. You haven't seen the medical report. You haven't interviewed the paramedic. You haven't talked to the witnesses, such as the USADA doping control officer. You have none of the information. USADA has all of the information. And they say you're wrong.

:lol1: your a ****ing ***. Showtime showing pbc fighters isnt anything new. Its the same crap they've been doing for years except now with the pbc banter. Also going from cbs, spike, bounce, and fox to just fox really shows they accomplished alot :lol1: Before PBC, SHO's budget was half of what it's going to be now and Haymon had to share the budget with promoters that weren't under his umbrella. So Haymon now has all of the SHO budget, the SHO budget has doubled, and now FOX has jumped in and matched SHO's budget as well. Meaning Haymon managed to more than quadruple what is being paid for the rights to his fights now. In every conceivable way, the PBC experiment turned out to be an overwhelming success.

I doubt there's gonna be a Pbc 2 in our lifetimes, after this epic disaster. Epic disaster? HBO's boxing budget has been slashed to under 20 million, while FOX and SHO are both committing over 60 million each to PBC.

The PBC plan was a bad one from day one Was it? Because it resulted in the largest budget in boxing history. FOX + SHO now obliterates even the peak of HBO boxing in the 90s.

PBC is as good as dead. It's over. Haymon is just terrible as a business man, he messed up bad. Oh really? Wonder why FOX and SHO are committing hundreds of millions of dollars to PBC even though it's dead. So strange.

dont tell me you typed that with a straight face :lol1: A major over the air network just committed over 60 million a year to boxing for a minimum of four years. Before PBC, that would have been considered absolutely impossible. The goal of PBC was to grow the pie so Haymon Boxing wouldn't be at the mercy of Showtime and handcuffed by their relatively small budget. Now Showtime has a massive budget and that budget essentially doubles now that Fox has matched it. So yes, the PBC experiment ended up being a huge success.

PBC accomplished nothing spending all that money. There isn't one thing they can look at and say, "at least we accomplished this." Nothing, a complete failure. This plan never made sense from the beginning. PBC now has hundreds of million guaranteed by FOX & SHO over the next few years. Guess they accomplished something after all.

they invested almost a billion over 5 years which has seen that money used up We know W&R was willing to invest up to 925 million, but we don't know how much they actually invested and we have absolutely no idea how much of that money was used up.

Bump... Any updates recently? Yeah, pretty big update. PBC has over $120 million a year in guaranteed US rights fees now, the biggest budget in boxing. Lotta people look foolish in this thread.

Good, what network? 60+ million guaranteed from Fox/Fox Sports and 60+ million guaranteed from CBS/Showtime.

Heard, not read. Someone on my block that claims that they know him told me he was closer to 48. He said that his uncle went to school with Ortiz on the island. So he waited until he was 41 years old to go pro? And was actually in his mid to late 30s in the amateurs when video shows him as a young babyfaced fighter appearing to be in his mid 20s?

So you can't answer me on fighters being paid more money on the basis of having the WBC over the IBF and the WBA? I can, but I'm refusing to, because as I already explained, I'm not going to allow you to move the goal posts.

Showtime will put up $50mil for a fighter they have never paid more than $1.5/2.5mil for his fights. Showtime will put up the guarantees for the purses. That is typically how a boxing PPV works. Showtime or HBO fronts the money and they get paid back through the PPV buys before the promoter gets his cut. You better go check your temp. Has wilder ever generated $20mil since he started fighting professionally? What Wilder has earned previously doesn't change the fact that Haymon and Showtime have called AJ's bluff and he will get his 50 million if he wants it.

All other things being equal?? Haha. Name me the fighters that were paid more because they had the WBC but would have been paid less with having another title? Point out where TV companies paid less to a big name fighter because he had one of the other titles? When has a promoter or a TV exec made a claim of paying more money to a WBC title owner over having any of the other titles? Hahahaha you want me to list hundreds of fighters? The TV networks and promoters take the WBC the most seriously, always have, and that leads to WBC champions getting opportunities WBO champions wouldn't get. Obviously once you're already a star, which belt you hold is far less important. So no, big name fighters don't really benefit greatly by having one title over another. Arum had an army of WBO champions and could barely get HBO to give him the time of day. He had to go the Haymon route with hedge fund money to get a lower paying deal with ESPN. Several recent WBO heavyweight title fights were largely ignored in the US. Shown on tape delay or not shown at all. You don't see that happen with the WBC heavyweight title. The WBO isn't as sought after, so of course the champion is going to have less leverage. The WBO is essentially the Bob Arum/Frank Warren in house belt. What was the last big WBO purse bid you saw? Pretty much never happens. Parker vs. Fury had a 3 million purse bid. Wilder vs. Povetkin was over 7 million dollars. You clearly haven't been paying attention to purse bids if you think all the belts have equal value. It's not that the networks would pay less for Demetrius Andrade because he was WBO champion, it's that they really didn't want him at all. If he'd been WBC champion, he would have had more value and credibility and would have been able to get dates. If Billie Joe Saunders had been WBC middleweight champion instead of WBO middleweight champion, he would have been on US TV every fight instead of largely ignored until Golden Boy tried to buy his belt. A TV exec doesn't say, "oh, he's WBC champion instead of WBO champion? let's pay him more." That's not how it works. It's that being WBC champion gives you so much more credibility than being WBO champion that you're more likely to get an opportunity to begin with. If Chocolatito had been WBO champion instead of WBC champion, HBO wouldn't have gotten behind him in such a major way. Haymon is by far the most powerful man in US boxing. Hearn is by far the most powerful man in UK boxing. The US & UK are by far the most lucrative markets in world boxing. Both of them covet the WBC title the most and both of them largely ignore the WBO title. This is not a coincidence. Arum & Warren are the second rate guys in those countries and they are the WBO guys. The guys with the most leverage go with the WBC because they know it's the most valuable.

I love how you keep on mentioning the WBO belt but not the IBF or WBA. You're clearly playing slight of hand here but it's obvious. Your bullsh*t may work on an idiot, but I just laugh at what you're saying. You're the one claiming all the belts are equal, so I'm obviously going to focus on the most valuable (WBC) and least valuable (WBO) to illustrate my point. The fact that you're complaining that I'm not mentioning the IBF and WBA shows that even you know they're not all equal because you realize the difference in value between the WBC and WBO is larger than the difference between the WBC and WBA/IBF. US Networks wouldn't have had BJS on TV because they weren't interested in the match-up. It has nothing to do with him having the WBO belt. WBO champions are not taken as seriously by networks. Always been that way. Had BJS been WBC champion, he would have gotten a big fight sooner and US interest would have been higher. When he fought Lemeiux, HBO were interested so they showed the fight. Not once did they claim they were paying BJS less because he had the WBO title. So stop talking crap. HBO was interested because their lead promoter (Golden Boy) was trying to buy the belt. BJS had to go to enemy territory as the B-side to try to get some US exposure. He wouldn't have had to be so desperate if he'd held a more valuable title. Wilder/Povetkin had a bigger purse bid than Fury/Parker? No!!! Um, yes. It's easily verifiable public information. If you're going to deny indisputable fact, I'm not sure what the point is of having a discussion.

Give me examples of WBC champs getting paid more money because of the belt over fighters holding the WBA and the IBF? I shouldn't have to. Your position is that all four belts are equal. If I prove the WBC is more valuable than the WBO, then your position is proven to be faulty. Why should I let you move the goal posts? No, BJS would have had the same fights on offer to him that he does have with holding the WBO. To say otherwise is clearly crazy. What fights are not on offer because he holds the WBO that would be open if he held the WBC? What qualifies you to say that? How much experience do you have negotiating with television networks? How much experience do you have negotiating with promoters? How would you have any idea what goes on behind the scenes, what the networks value, what the promoters value, etc? Here is your statement: "BJS would have had the same fights on offer to him that he does have with holding the WBO." You couldn't possibly know if that's true or not and it's amazing that you even think you could know that. Let's look at the WBC and WBO middleweight champions from the last 10 years: WBC Kelly Pavlik Sergio Martinez Sebastian Zbik Julio Cesar Chavez Jr Sergio Martinez Miguel Cotto Canelo Alvarez Gennady Golovkin WBO Kelly Pavlik Sergio Martinez Dmitry Pirog Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam Peter Quillin Andy Lee Billy Joe Saunders Which of the two belts do you think generated the largest sanctioning fees in the last decade? Which belt was involved in the biggest fights the last decade? Which belt was held by the biggest names the last decade? Which belt was most prominently featured by the largest television networks the last decade? Which belt garnered more attention with the public the last decade? Last three WBC champs: Cotto, Alvarez, Golovkin. Last three WBO champs: Quillin, Lee, Saunders. You don't see a big difference? HBO were interested in Golden Boy buying the belt? You mean the belt that they're not interested in according to you? Never said not interested in. Said less interested in. Big difference. HBO was interested in Golden Boy buying the belt as an insurance policy if Canelo lost to GGG. Would have allowed Canelo to get an easy belt from Lemieux and when you're as big a star as Canelo is, the belts become a lot more interchangeable. Saunders would have had to travel regardless of what title he held because Golden Boy were willing to pay more money for the fight than Warren. To suggest Warren would have put up more money for Saunders if he held the WBC is nothing short of preposterous. If Saunders had the WBC, GGG would have been far more aggressive in pursuing a fight with him, as would have Canelo and others. A WBO champion hiding in Europe is often out of sight out of mind. You have to remember that for decades the WBO was not even a recognized title and was essentially a fake belt Warren tricked the UK into considering a world title. In the rest of the world, it's still not thought of as being fully equal to the others and the purse bids for the various belts bear that out time and time again.

If Wilder fights another Haymon controlled inhouse bum that would be ridiculous. Team Wilder really knows how not to promote a fighter. Keep fighting inhouse after inhouse after inhouse and claim you wanna unify but actually never do it. There's a reason Wilder barely has fans except some desperate, naive, easily manipulated american fangirls. the major problem with your premise is that wilder is one of the most popular american boxers and is showtime's biggest ratings draw. he's the #1 fighter on the #1 boxing network. he's on a major reality show. he has a larger fan base than pretty much any american fighter. so when you say he barely has any fans, despite having more fans than everybody else, you look foolish.

That means wilder has been bums in his home country.... Yet he's able to offer 50 million. What's the problem? AJ has no problem with ppv in his home country. Congratulations. Can he make 50 million? And am very confident AJ will make more ppv in the US than wilder. That's great. Enough without Wilder for AJ to make 50 million? Wilder needs to be exposed to the US audience, no body knows him. Nobody knows him compared to who? Give me a list of active American fighters more well known than Wilder. I'll wait.

So you mean to say wilder has never fought any notable fighter in his career to be put on ppv? The only fighter who can do 500,000 PPVs in the US right now is Canelo. So for any other fighter, whether it's AJ, Wilder, or anybody else, to successfully headline a PPV, it has to be a very special fight that can generate the kind of mainstream attention necessary to capture the public's imagination. AJ isn't a PPV star in the US. Neither is Wilder. But two undefeated fighters, UK vs US, for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world, the first undisputed heavyweight championship fight in two decades and the first ever WBC/WBA/IBF/WBO heavyweight unification is a once in a generation kind of fight. It's the culmination of circumstances that makes this fight so massive. AJ vs Povetkin would sell next to nothing in the US. Wilder vs. Breazeale would sell next to nothing in the US. But AJ vs Wilder is the fight that would unlock the US PPV market. People who normally don't care about boxing will care if there is an undisputed heavyweight champion. It's always been like that. Buster Douglas was not a PPV star. Holyfield was not a PPV star. But their fight generated a lot of money because the UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD was the draw. This is no different. And who even cares if the fight sells? AJ's 50 million is guaranteed. Let Showtime lose a bunch of money. Why is that his problem? These excuses are so lame. Even in his home town and a country of about 350mil. You guys like to hide away from the truth, showtime knows no body knows wider, he could barely fill a 15k arena in his own country, he draws no shyte. Danny Jacobs just fought in his actual hometown and drew less than half than what Wilder draws in that same building, despite Wilder having no local ties. Wilder is Showtime's biggest draw. In the ratings and at the box office. If you say he doesn't draw, that's fine, but that means basically nobody draws except Canelo. It's all relative. Just because boxing isn't as big in the US as it is in the UK doesn't change the fact that Wilder is one of the biggest names in US boxing. He has a million fans. Which isn't much compared to AJ, but it's a lot compared to most US boxers. Face the fact and stop been a fan boy, for your own good. A champ with 40 fights and showtime never seem it fit to put one on ppv, what does it mean to you? It means that Showtime doesn't want to put fights on PPV unless absolutely necessary. When was the last time Showtime did a PPV that didn't involve Mayweather or Canelo? It's been forever. Showtime not putting Wilder on PPV doesn't mean Wilder isn't a star. The numbers show Wilder is their biggest star.

Another LIE ! Finkel SPECIFICALLY said in his Email that they wanted the Joshua fight at the END of the year which means they have a fight lined up NOW . Wilder's offer made it very clear that neither side could take an interim fight. It would have to be the next fight for both fighters. So no, it doesn't mean they could take another fight now. If AJ accepts, AJ and Wilder wouldn't fight anyone else in between. Both sides have confirmed that was part of the offer.

Firstly I think Wilder knocks AJ out. Secondly check my first few post on this when the offer was announced, I thought it was real and I still want to believe it’s real. You may very well be right about Wilder knocking AJ out. I don't see it as a sure thing, but it's very possible. Wilder tends to give away a lot of rounds and Joshua is a great fighter and very large. Wilder can go head hunting for 12 rounds but if he doesn't hit the big punch, it could be tough for Wilder to win. As for the offer, it's definitely real. That doesn't mean it's wise for Hearn to accept, but the offer is definitely real. Haymon has the full backing of Showtime on this. If the fight flops, the fight flops, but Showtime is willing to take the chance and so is Wilder. So put yourself in Hearn's shoes. Maybe Hearn agrees with you that Wilder knocks AJ out. If that's the case, isn't it Hearn's professional duty to invent excuses to delay this fight? Just because I believe the offer is real doesn’t mean I still don’t think it’s a PR stunt. Definitely a PR stunt Agree with you 100% again. It's a real offer that was announced the way it was announced as a PR stunt. To put maximum pressure on Hearn if he turns it down. If you make that offer in secret, Hearn can just say no and then go on IFL and say whatever he wants. 100% a PR stunt, but also 100% a real offer. for that amount of money you get off social media and lock yourselves in a room and sort it out. Yes of course, but there is a reason why in boxing (and some other industries) that you don't lock yourself in the room unless there is at least a general understanding in principle on the money. Otherwise, you risk spending all of this time hammering out all of these other details, only for the other party to say at the end, "well I never actually said yes to the 50 million, so I'm really gonna need 60 or the deal is off." Remember, Duco refused to meet with Hearn until there was a general understanding in principle on the financial split. Did that mean Duco didn't want the AJ fight? No, of course not. They just weren't going to give Eddie the leverage at the end of the negotiation to say, "well I didn't technically say yes to 33%, it's actually going to have to be 30%." Working out the smaller details is often a huge pain in the ass and very time consuming that people don't go through all of that until the money has been worked out. Arum needed to know that Haymon could live with 60/40 before sitting down to work out the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight. Arum wouldn't sit down with Finkel for Holyfield-Foreman until 62/38 had been agreed upon. It's been this way forever. Eddie isn’t as intelligent as you guy think he is. He is an opportunist. But am not speaking about Hearn here, am speaking about 50m and people sitting down and talking. So for me it is a PR stunt. Hearn is obviously a very bright guy. Yes he had the advantage of inheriting a business, but he's done an incredible job of building it to bigger and better heights. I can't say a single bad thing about how Hearn conducts business. He's very very good. But nobody is going to sit down with him to discuss the details until Hearn confirms that 50 would be acceptable if the details check out. It's just common sense. You're giving Hearn too much power in the negotiation if you agree to discuss small details before there's a mutual understanding on the money. If it doesn't make sense to you, that's fine. I'm just telling you how these things work. You don't have to understand it. For all I know you are a nuclear physicist and you could try to explain until you're blue in the face the details of your profession and I would probably never understand.

Well I think even some of the American boxing journalists caught on that this fight was already made, they knew after the last press release that Team Wilder were playing games with them. Publicity stunt was the right word. Am sure after the fight he would accuse the world of ducking him, whilst he ducks his own number 1 guy in Whyte. You used to be a lot more balanced, but you're starting to drink the kool-aid very hard. Team Wilder isn't playing games. The 50 million is a legit offer. If AJ doesn't want the 50 million, Wilder will fight Breazeale. That is not a game. That is being prepared.

STFU you clown nobody believes you negotiated boxing deals. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't true. Bet me and I'll be very happy to prove whatever you want. What we do know is this isn't how it's normally done. Teams wanting to make fights don't refuse to meet or send the contract when one is requested. No you don't know that. You have no idea how it's normally done. You are a fan. Stop pretending you have any idea how things operate behind the scenes. Duco wanted to make the fight with Hearn, yet Duco repeatedly refused to meet until there was a mutual understanding about the money.

So why can't Hearn and AJ have some sort of understanding on where the money is coming by having a meeting they asked for to better understand it.. before committing and saying "we accept" All they have to say is, "if we're comfortable with where the money is coming from, and other details are negotiated to our satisfaction, we would accept 50 million." Then they can sit down to talk over the other details. But so far, Hearn has refused to say that he would accept the offer even if all the other details were kosher. If he's not willing to accept 50 million under any circumstance, there's no reason to meet. You know damn well if they said it and sat down and then weren't happy with the other particulars such as marketing.. venue control etc and said no we aren't doing that,, that wilder fanboys Including you three on this shill account would cry duck. AJ said give me 50 million. They're willing to give him 50 million. Obviously the fight needs to be in Vegas to generate the most revenue. All the other particulars would be easily negotiated. When both sides want a fight, it gets done. It's just Hearn making excuses to save face.

I wish people would stop calling the WBC the main belt. All world titles are equal. False. You don't get paid more or get a higher ranking if you hold the WBC. False. Joshua has 3 world titles to Wilder's 1. Joshua is clearly the main man. To suggest otherwise is nothing more than extreme arrogance and delusion. Joshua is the consensus #1. Wilder is the consensus #2. But there's no denying the WBC is the most valuable belt. More valuable than the other 3 combined? Of course not. But even Hearn himself has spoken publicly many many times over the years about the WBC belt being the most valuable of the four.

Wilder fighting a slow ass molasses Breazeale. No wonder ratings are not getting any higher. Pretty stupid troll thread. Wilder has been doing Showtime's best ratings. Wilder vs. Breazeale would be the #2 and #8 heavyweights in the world according to Boxrec. Pretty respectable for something that would essentially be a stay busy fight while waiting for AJ to be ready.

Yeah there is less security if more money when it comes to negotiation. In the real world am sorry it doesn't work like that. You just don't understand the process and you're taking at face value the lies of Eddie Hearn. He doesn't want the fight next. He's making excuses. You don't know any better, so you believe what he says. That is your problem here. What would be VERY TYPICAL in boxing would be that the two parties have a fundamental understanding on what the financial arrangement would be and then you sit down to hammer out everything else. What Hearn is trying to do is act like he wanted to negotiate the fight and use the meeting for PR reasons to spin why the fight didn't happen. They're not going to sit with him if 50 million isn't enough. If 50 million is enough, assuming other details are to his liking, then they can sit down and try to negotiate those details. But if Hearn won't accept 50 million, no matter what, under any circumstance, what is there to discuss in person?