funniest thread ever
The intentional mispellings just crack me up. AND by the way, I think its a good fight. The truth is the WORSt Pavlik ever looked was against Lopez. I dont hold Bhop against him too much for a couple of reasons. (1) Bhop has made about 50 different elite fighters look like hopeless assholles and (2) I am not entirely certain he was healthy for the fight ( possibly his own fault for bad behavior but no indication of his ability to perform healthy). He was in the Martinez fight, still apparently has his power, has great trainer that seems to have him focused again, and Froch is not exactly Bhop in skill level as evidenced by the 11 round ass whipping put on him by Taylor (unfortunatly it was a 12 round fight).
Hard to tell
Hard to tell Anything about him vs that level of opponent, but I will say this. (1) He was by far the leanest and biggest I've ever seen him, which to me actually makes a return to 160 less likely in spite of the fact according to every thing I've read, he did exactly nothing besides normal work to make this weight. (2) Unless Jaco is pure glass jaw adding a heavy lead left hook is going to go nicely with the straight right hand that has always been his power shot.
I have no idea if he will ever be elite again but I sure hope he becomes relevant enough to get a good fight or two. Talk all you want about Slick boxers but give me heavy hitters that get hit for my 59.95 PPV dollars.
Taylor, what a waste
I have always thought Taylor was a talent. I think he could still be relevent but not with a trainer that wont let him fight. The worst advice Ive ever seen in a corner EVER. (And what the hell happened to his left hand, weak jabs and 1 damn hook that landed the whole fight.) If he had been told to knock that weak ass out in about round 2 then the fight should have been over by about round 6. The BEST way to protect a damn glass jaw is NOT fighting defensive, the best way is to knock the other guy out or at least knock the hell out of him a few times before he lands. AS demonstrated by old man Hearns ( by far the most sucessful glass jaw ever)
And Kid Hearns got all the glass jaw with none of the talent or balls, now theres one that should quit.
Look I agree that Martinez may beat Pavlik and may beat him fairly easily assuming he doesn't run out of gas and get caught, but comparing him to Hopkins is just complete lunacy. Bhop is bigger, better and much much better defensively. Not only that Hopkins is pretty heavy handed (anyone remember Oscar crumbling from a body shot?) and everytime Pavlik got ready to assert some pressure, Bhop could hit him hard enough to back him off. Martinez can't do that. And everyone forget that as a middlewieght Pavlik routinely has thrown over 100 punches a round so it's not like Martinez is going to feel that much less pressure than he did from Williams plus Pavlik hits harder. Again, I assert this is lose lose for both fighters. ALL that can happen is Martinez slips and grabs for 12 and lands the occasional potshot, enough to win. or Pavlik knocks out a smaller opponent and hasn't answered a single question about his legitimacy as Middleweight Champ. It may be the only fight that could be made since Pavlik so screwed up the chance for the Williams fight, but it still sucks that it isn't two true middleweights.
I agree. I LOVE to watch Pavlik fight and his best fights are always against guys that fight, not box. I don't think he can beat Bute but I hope he tags him a time or two anyway, just to see how Bute takes it. Bute's best fight has been against a beaten down Miranda and Pavlik put the beatdown on Miranda that ruined him forever, so a little full circle going on here. Every one of Pavliks last fights I am reminded of what Evander Holyfield after losing a fight or two. Paraphrase, I have been trying to take poeple to school when I should have been taking them to the woodshed.
Pavlik seems intent on showing people he can box, when we all know he can't, he CAN fight though, (or at least he could at one time) he needs to do like he used to if he wants to be what he once was, just beat them down, like he did Miranda when Miranda was considered the beast of the MWs.
I don't get it. I don't get why everyone loves AA so much. Again, I thought Taylor was at least IN the fight before that glass jaw that Pavlik gave him showed up again. But AA takes WAY too many jabs to be taken seriously. To his credit he did drop Taylor with the only damn straight punch he threw all night but get him outside Germany where every body punch isn't met with a warning and every jab thrown his way isn't a lollipop and then I'll be a true believer. Until then he's Richard Dunn (and he better run).
And just for the record, I thought Dirrell might've won his fight as well but like AA it's hard to root for someone that spends half the fight bitching to the ref.
My favorite in the whole damn thing is Froch - At least he is who he is and he is the damn champ of the whole crowd as far as I am concerned. (Again, with the caveat that he may have lost tonight if the fight were somewhere outside europe or Houston.
After watching last night, I honestly think Pavlik would abuse him. Oral was a complete stiff (as was Mora for Pavlik) and if he lets Pavlik pound on that peekaboo defense some of those right hands will sting. He does have the power to hurt Pavlik but he would give Pavlik endless time to do his "resets" that set up his punching rythym. (The same "resets" that Hopkins so brilliantly disrupted.) I think he is Taylor made for Pavlik. Pavlik always beats inactive sluggers, or sluggers period for that matter. It's those that can counter over his big right that trouble him. Strum will be a much tougher for fight for him than AA. - Though to be fair, I haven't seem Strum fight in years. He might be a stiff by now too.
Pavlik beating Froch anywhere on this planet is hilarious
How so? 2 guys have beaten Pavlik, one was the best middleweight ever and another (that Pavlik managed to knock down) ranked as second or third best pound for pound fighter alive? I don't think Pavlik can beat Froch, but to call it a pipe dream is stupid. Be a fan of boxing, not a fan of boxers.
I HATE Taylor's trainer. He's got a Corvette. and he's driving it to 7-11.You can only protect a glass jaw so much, the best way to keep his ass from getting knocked out by a lesser fighter is to knock the damn guy out before Taylor gets winded. If Taylor had been given instructions to let go an hit the effer, then this fight is over by round 6 at the latest. The worst thing that can happen to a talent is apparently not moving out of his damn hometown.
He's too slow.
Hey, I think Cotto is a terrific fighter with reasonably heavy hands but he won't ever be able to hit Floyd, nor avoid his right hand lead. I think it goes the distance but Mayweather wins easily. Cotto's just too SLOW, and not so powerful he makes up for it.
Did anyone hear whether or not Chavez managed to piss after this fight. He hasn't be drug tested in his last two as I recall.... Not saying Martinez doesn't juice too (former cyclist after all) just curious if anyone heard it mentioned.
As for the fight, I really dont like watching Martinez, at middleweight anyway, but I got to pay him props, he pulverized the dude. I do wonder what would've happened if Chavez has just let his hands go earlier. Then again, if he had opened up earlier, he might've been more pulverized by a fresher Martinez.
Well, I am almost sick of being a Pavlik apologist, because I hate it too that he hasn't fought ANYONE since Hopkins. But I will say again, he isn't exactly alone when it comes to losing to Hopkins, and I DON'T believe he was hinmself in that fight. Not being able to spar enough seriously hurt him but I still think Hopkins would have beat his ass just because he is just better than Pavlik like he is just better than 95% of all middleweights all time.
But Williams? I think Williams will work his ass off but I don't believe he can hurt Pavlik. Pavlik CAN hurt Williams and Pavlik is almost as Busy as Williams but his punches are thrown with much more power. I have said before that good and big beats just good every time - and I was entirely wrong considering Pacman and Hatton, but this is different. Kelly has game changing power. Williams doesn't. At some point i feel Pavlik will land a right and the fight will change. It MIGHT even be a body shot. More likely a straight right hand on a walking in Williams.
Pavlik is a likely target for a good left hook but not sure that Williams can hurt him with it. With all that said, If Williams can keep him smothered all night and it does go to a decision he will win. But I just don't see it happening. Pavlik will hurt him, slow him down and knock him out.
Humble my ass. Every body punch he took he bitched. Then he talks about conquering America. Well, If he want to conquer America, fair enough, fight someone decent here. I'm not saying he isnt a legit fighter. But this notion that he is the best in that division is crazy, in my opinion at least. I LOVE heavy handed fighters. I would much rather watch a good puncher than say, a Winky Wright. But I hate a bad boxer too and I just dont see much skill there. Most of his punches are wide like Mayorga and some other fearsome punchers and we know what happens to those guys when they fight a boxer that will actually fight back. Sure he's 30 whatever and O but as we all know, that doesnt mean much anymore; Honestly, he might win the thing, frankly, it's a weak bunch, but as a personal opinion - I can't see him beating Kessler and I doubt seriously is he will be able to beat Froch (the English after all, have always been the thorn in the side of Germans.)
Pavlik at 168
THE main difference between Pavlik the beast and Pavlik the bum is his workrate. When he was moving up through the middleweights he often punched 100 times a round with authority. IF he can do that, at 168 and not weight drained and half drunk then he beats most of the SMWs including Bute. If he can't stay busy enough to make those bigger guys play some defense against his right hand then he's just another guy that continues to lose big fights against good fighters. No shame in that it's just that he could really make some noise if everything translates. He keeps saying that his 2 losses are held against him too much, if he becomes that guy, that fights well but usually loses then he's going to get his wish of being a former champion that can still get big fights against top opponents with 5 or 6 losses.(Can I hear a Margarito!) He might even win a couple with his right hand, but never against the elite. So I guess only time will tell.
I have always said AA was an overhyped euro but I think Ward might be just as overhyped. I agree with the earlier poster that said if AA can actually still let his punches go then he has more than a punchers chance. If he spends the whole fight peeking and *****ing about every body shot being a low blow then Ward could leave without a mark on him. AA must be active, the question is does he still have that in him?
I thought it was a good fight against an opponent that was hard to look good against. I think the style Garcia has him fighting in is likely a little safer but i like him better when he just beat the **** outta people. I think the thought that his power won't translate is wrong, but his power was always at the end of his reach (even lowly Jaco was at the end of a left) and he has to get back to using his jab more. The left hook is great but not at the expense of his jab. Maybe Loew was right....double the ****ing jab, Kelly.
here in england we love carl froch and have never seen a boring fight.
heres the deal, carl to lick kessler in a rematch in notingham.
step 2, arguments to take place over the bute rematch clause which will result in bute claiming carl refused.(which we all know based on the last 3yrs to be bollocks because he ducks nobody).
its a waste of time fight, an easy win for carl anywhere anytime then and now.
bute is technically quite good but not elite.
step 3. bika......bika bika bika....hmmm, bika has faced high level opponents in the past but always stopped short.
his best fight in my view was against coddrington where he showed good resiliance and a big heart but, would get caught by carl late on for a stoppage loss.
step 3.assuming pavlik wins a couple then, it would probably be a pick em in terms of whos the banger but, weve seen pavlik struggle with big shooters and carl froch has probably the hardest chin in the game so, froch by ko early late or points here.
step 4. carl to employ methods of improving his speed and a return against the excellent andre ward will beckon if both fighters have cleaned up all their business at the weight and we may see a different outcome than before.
I agree that Froch would beat Pavlik, but I missed the banger that Pavlik struggled against? Miranda? Pavlik beats bangers down, Hopkins, Martinez and Bud Light, thats all that can be held against Pavlik...None of those are bangers. Be a boxing fan, not a fan of boxers. Or just pay attention.
Pavlik win
I just watched what little I could find on this guy on youtube and I THINK (not positive) that Pavlik will beat him pretty easily. I just don't think that it will prove anything. I was ready for a serious Pavlik step up. Althought I guess a 16-1 fighter is cetainly better than Jaco and Sigmon, and he might even be better than Lopez, I still get the sense that this is just Pavlik spending more time (deserved time) in the Arum doghouse. I am certain Pavlik would have rather waited until Sept, and fought ANY Name, but when Rio's wded, then Arum thought "Hmmmm, who owes me that wouldn't piss HBO off?" Kelly Pavlik, step forward please.
Martinez is going to humiliate pavlik have you guys seen the slickness and the speed and power
Martinez may BEAT Pavlik I agree but I don't think he's that slick or powerful. He's a legimate fighter, that is awkward to hit but when I think "slick" I think Bhop or Mayweather. I am not sure he punches hard enough to keep Pavlik backed off and thats normally REAL bad news for Pavlik opponents. BHOP DOES hit hard enough to disrupt him and slick enough to avoid Pavlik and he beat him easily but Martinez is no 170 pound BHop either defensively or powerwise.
Like I said, He's good, He's even money as far as I am concerned, but humiliate is not a word I would use.
if your a fan of boxing you know this is one way traffic.
only fans of Pavlik would contend he has any chance against Froch
I AM a fan of Pavlik, but I am also a fan of Froch. I like action fighters. Truthfully Ive been wrong a lot in my past. I thought Hatton had a chance against Mayweather and Pac. I thought Pavlik would kill Hopkins, and I thought Pwill would at least have a good chance against Martinez. I thought Chavez was overrated, I thought Khan would beat the **** out of Garcia. And back in the day before stupid *******s and internet posts I thought Tyson would beat Douglas and Foreman would crush Ali. MY point is, Pavlik has a good chin, Froch gets hit a lot. Pavlik has power, Froch take shots well. Against common opponents, Pavlik is better. BUT was that against middleweights. Froch is better, but Pavlik is not a tomato can. If Pavlik touches him, then Froch better be able to take it. It's a good fight.. Be a fan of boxing. Not a fan of boxers.
segio better check for steroids
As a boxing fan that isn't a fan of either fighter particulary, I think it's dog eat dog on the PEDs for this one. Martinez is a former cyclist - and that sport has the most sophisticated PED cheaters in the WORLD, and Chavez is worthy of suspicion as well. I do think he has REALLY improved as a boxer and Martinez is a super bad guy who chopped down KP(another bigger stronger fighter), so I say not test either and let them go at it. HGH and all.
Pavlik fan
Hey I Love me some Kelly Pavlik, one of the most entertaining fighters I've enjoyed in my fandom. There's no way in hell he ever beats Ward though. One thing I don't think is true that's being written though. I don't think Ward is Hopkins. After watching him de-nut Dawson, he's more like a more skilled Miranda. I think this fight is very physical and Ward wins by stoppage, not UD. But as a Pavlik fan - of course I hope for the clean right hand that changes it, but I would bet on Ward. I hope this fight happens.
Hopkins never loses according to Hopkins
I have Mad respect for any 47 yrs old that even compete at this level but except for Pavlik I haven't seen him win a fight without a foul or crying foul in 9-10 years. Retire retire retire. Please god don't make me watch you like a sideshow attraction.the only interesting thing is what he's gonna do dirty as hell to give himself a chance. Or here's an idea, talk Evender down to 185 and you too can't try and out delusion one another to death.
Taylor should be admired.
Whatever one can say about Taylor, it cannot be said he avoids anyone. I am a Kelly Pavlik fan but I am getting sick quick of him fighting stiffs. The last true stiff Taylor fought was Spinks and he wasn't so much a stiff as just undersized. All Taylor really needs to be REALLY almost unbeatable is a trainer other than Stewart or his homeboy. Stewart trains nothing but defense then seems shocked when his fighters don't punch. He's turned Vlad into nothing but a jabber for God's sake. He lost his heart for war when Hearns was KO'ed by Hagler. If he is so great how come he let Lewis come in such crappy condition for Rock and Vlad get whacked by Sander's left hand. Taylor's current trainer is just simply in over his head.
Taylor is the most talented boxer in the Middle - Super Middle divisions, with Roach, Mcgirt or even Ann Wolfe as his trainer he would have mowed down Froch. He has fought nothing but Champions or former Champions for YEARS and with all the shitty matches us boxing fans are subjected to, we should appauld that. His corner hasn't properly prepared him since the first Hopkin's fight in my opinion.
Oh and for the record, Pavlik has EXACTLY the same problem now, His trainer can't compete against a real trainer that teaches any offense. I DO believe he would have KO'ed Froch pretty early since Froch actually got hit quite a bit and Pavlik has heavier hands than Taylor. Pavlik would have finished after that knockdown. You could almost see Taylor thinking "Don't waste any energy!"
By T.K. Stewart - MASHANTUCKET, Conn. - WBC Super middleweight titlist Carl “The Cobra” Froch, 167, Nottingham, England, 24-0, 19 KO's made his American championship debut against former undisputed world middleweight champion Jermain “Bad Intentions” Taylor, 166, Little Rock, Arkansas, 28-2-1, 17KO's.
In an amazing display of guts and perseverance, Carl Froch rescued his title with 14 seconds left in the twelfth and final round to stop Jermain Taylor in what very well may go down as the comeback of the year - within a fight.
Down on two official judges' scorecards, by scores of 106-102, (he was leading 106-102 on the third card) Froch needed a knockout to retain his title and he was finally able to put together a powerful combination of punches to drop Taylor in the final round. In an amazing last round stoppage victory to retain his title, similar to Jake LaMotta vs. Laurent Dauthuille in 1950, Carl Froch held onto the green belt of the WBC title in positively stunning fashion. details]
I actually think this will be a good fight but the trouble is, it's like Mayweather/Mosely in that IT'S NOT THE FIGHT ANYONE WANTED TO SEE. I love boxing, but in my opinion there has to be some sort of league or regulatory commision step in and take control of match-ups and promoters for it to return the prominence it once enjoyed. The Best fights never get made anymore and one reason for that is a with the current system, a fighter is over punished for a loss even to a world class opponent. Pavlik lost to Hopkins, a great great fighter 2 weight classes bigger, if he fought Williams and lost, then his big money fights are over FOR YEARS. There is simply no incentive to take the fight on his part unless he can get the lions share of what would surely be a huge purse. Think Mayweather could generate the PPV's he does if he lost to Pac? He can beat Mosely, Clottey and 6 other guys all for huge dollars without 50% of the risk associated with a Pac fight. Sure Mosely might beat him, but if I were him I'd rather fight two aged Moselys at once than one Pac.
Bottom line is Martinez MIGHT beat Pavlik and Pavlik has suffered the same fate for less money than he would have fighting Pwill but I doubt it. I don't think Martinez can hurt him and against Pavlik, if you can't back him off, sooner or later he hits you with something that makes you go backwards and then it's a matter of time. In fact, the fight is pretty no win for both these guys, the best Martinez can do is slip and box and come away with a decision (like he should have gotten from Pwill) which seems unlikey in Atlantic City unless it's complete domination or Pavlik knocks out another undersized guy he SHOULD knock out and gets no credit for it.
Draw, Maidana gains nothing, Morales.with two eyes rolls, Warrior Morales!!!!
Yeah, I think that if that first round uppercut hadn't landed perfectly to **** up that eye, Morales wins but then again, if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass. It could also be said that Morales started way too cautiously and I think he had an adjustment from not being the much taller fighter as he was in most of his fights. Several times when it got heated he duck or lean to throw then would straighten when he realized he could. I think Madiana got WAY too much credit for throwing punches at least by Lampley's call and compubox stats, Morales was rolling about 80% of the punches that Madiana was "landing". He really landed way more shots, way more clean shots, and for the most part harder shots than Madiana. I have it recorded and am going watch more with a scoring eye again tomorrow but I thought Morales won from first watch. Then again, he did give away the first 2 from rust and the last two from fatigue so it's a hard decision to get irate about.
very tough comeback fight, and I hope it's not the last tune up he takes before trying to fight an elite 168. He needs to have around 2 more tune ups to get used to the weight and get back into top form without all the pressure. Next fight should be against a guy who will not move on him as much, but tough enough to give him some rounds. After that they should step him up to a guy like Andrade or his former scheduled opponent Brian Vera, someone with some grissle who might make reach down a little.
Overall I liked his performance and he seems to have carried his power up cause those lefts he landed were solid. he definitely looked rusty but that was to be expected.
I thought he looked ok too, He was really rusty early but he started landing some heavy shots later. The one concern I would have is his workrate. He didn't throw enough punches but then again Lopez was try to "Hopkins" him. Throw a flurry then clench. I feel like if it had been 12 rounds he wouldve scored the knockout. I also feel like it was terribly scored, I thought Pavlik won by 3 rounds MAYBE only 2 - How anyone could have seen a draw or 99-91 is complete mystery. Not sure Pavlik ir ready for an elite at this weight. He need to fight again in 3 months and then again in 3 after that. If he has a 6 month layoff now I agree that he's likely done. You can't get rid of rust in the gym and only fight once or twice a year.