Comments Thread For: Nunes: Ronda Rousey Was Overrated, UFC Made Her Like That!

[Anthony342]

Rickson used some force sometimes to get the opponent on the ground, so even back then, they were aware of it.

[Mzembe]

Agree on the 33 years of age thing. Probably why GSP got out at 32. How do you guys think Judo gold medalist Kayla Harrison will do in MMA? And do you like Joanna Champion, the straw weight champ?

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I don't really follow MMA (Men or Women) unless it has cross over appeal so I can admit that I had no clue who those two were. But I did look them up and spent some time watching Kayla. I think Kayla is brutally strong and with a background like that she would be extremely tough to beat. She's young enough to bamboozle through the first maybe 8 fights in a way that puts her on the international fame path. I can't say what can happen in the future but I like her background.

I didn't get much of Joanna but she seems versatile and cute so ... (I know the "cute" part was a little chauvinistic but we live in a world where looks sell)

[Mzembe]

We all face adversity when competing. Age does matter, but a lot of different things impact our fighting age. kicks to the brain stem can be a disaster in that regard. I don't know if that has caused Ronda problems and don't know what her fitness is but psychologically she is freezing up. Regarding Gatti and Ward, we all come to the table with different strengths...They allegedly did a scan of Caesar Chavez's head and found he had tremendous bone density in the cranium. David Price, a big strong heavy weight, by contrast was found to have very little punch resistance. its also psychological. When Joe Calzighe beat Lacey, he destroyed the guy, yet i doubt physically the punishment was as much as the equally matched Gatt ward fight.

I agree with you on this point. The bottom line is that punching with a bare hand and fighting in a manner where tunnel vision happens, weapons are around, adrenaline is operative, and learning to control oneself...even being able to apply techniques that take some fine motor skills, is the skill of a martial artist...not trying to win a match according to rules under limited conditions.

The other comment is: as a bouncer for many years in a place that needed us, a had guys constantly telling me (they knew i studied because i was small and there for a reason) how good they were, how they wanted to spar me, etc...and i had guys telling me about all they had studied...and in alllll that time watching lots and lots of conflicts, breaking up everything from brawls, fights, women fighting, to even a contract hit put on the owner (gunshots and all)...I can count on one hand the times I saw a martial arts technique employed! lol.

The gracies had good fundamentals and did not use brawn, the gracie guys know though often that I see are using more and more force... but now a days brawn is a consideration indeed and a very tough rugby guy with some wrestling could probably learn a few things about punching and perhaps do well in the sport of MMA. Its like any other sport in this regard, certainly not like a martial art.

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... and we are in full agreement. The only question I have is who do you think wins the fight between Danny Garcia and Keith Thurman? I think it's the next big fight.
I like both guys but Garcia has had a couple of forgettable fights where he looked awful. Traditionally I'd pick Thurman to beat him but Garcia manages to step up when faced with stiff competition so it's a hard call for me but I like Thurman's chances.

[billeau2]

Not only did a style vs. a style make the early days of MMA, but the limited rules made it more realistic too. I mean, no weight classes or time limits or even illegal strikes. The only thing it didn't have was weapons, so it was about as close to a real street fight as they could get and still get sanctioned back then.

Gosh!! I can remember things like these two gung fu guys trying to rip each other's faces with gloves...It was comicle...nobody could hurt each other, they just looked so silly.

Then of course there was "Kimo" remember Kimo Anthony? The Samoan who decided his subtle way to beat Royce or Helio? was to try to rip his arm off and beat him to death with the bloody stump.

It was a good experiment. But the Gracies had it gamed. The best fight I ever saw was in Brazil, its on a documentary like tape and features this solidly built black brazilian. The guy was a masher! He takes out a supposed Black Belt in karate, and has to fight Rorian Grace. Rorian, looking every bit the English lit professor on sabatical just gets the guy in guard and holds on for dear life. Finally submitting the guy like a while later.

Rorian never has the polish of his younger brothers but was a tough guy. I would never want to have a hulking coconut headed thug over me with the strategy being to wait him out.

[billeau2]

Agree on the 33 years of age thing. Probably why GSP got out at 32. How do you guys think Judo gold medalist Kayla Harrison will do in MMA? And do you like Joanna Champion, the straw weight champ?

Harrison is an interesting proposition. When Kano started Judo and wanted to make a name for himself, he went to teachers of some of the old ryu ha systems of Ju Jutsu... known as Koryu. Kano had an IQ of like 180, he was a smart man and knew the Ryuha were struggling. This was after the war and many heads of systems had to sell their art to literal collectors of these systems, just to not starve to death....The old aristocracy warlords were hurting and Kano made his move. Kano would make sure these guys had no fighters around, These guys would lose to Kano because they could not refuse a challenge and start practicing Judo along with their arts. This allowed Judo to spread quickly...judo also became a way to study other arts, for example, Don Draeger, who used Judo as a means to study BoJutsu and the sword in kashori Shinto Ryu ha.

Naturally Judo came out on top, and judo became a combat darling... You can see reflections of this even today where many special forces use Judo techniques. Virtually all the sports Jiu Jitsu techniques in MMA are also Judo oriented. Yet, despite this fact Judo has a strange relationship to MMA. Why is this?

Well one thing is Judo has become more and more regimented and exclusinary regarding techniques allowed in tournaments. judo looks more and more like Sumo every day...one ippon and the action stops. This is part of the reason sports Jiu Jitsu takes the slack up...enter harrison. The biggest difference between the Judo training Harrison does and Ronda did is this limitation on what is allowed in a tournament. Ronda's mother would have been well prepared for combat because so much more was allowed in Judo when she was an olympic champion.

With that said, it depends on how this girl is able to learn the sport of MMA and if she is well rounded enough to utilize her skills, and what skills she was able to develop as a competitor. I don't think the judo in and of itself will guarantee her much success though.

[billeau2]

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... and we are in full agreement. The only question I have is who do you think wins the fight between Danny Garcia and Keith Thurman? I think it's the next big fight.
I like both guys but Garcia has had a couple of forgettable fights where he looked awful. Traditionally I'd pick Thurman to beat him but Garcia manages to step up when faced with stiff competition so it's a hard call for me but I like Thurman's chances.

Thurman is explosive and talented. Garcia has gotten a lot of gift decisions and imo is ordinary. Garcia does respond well to a slug fest. So stylistically Thurman might be better but is a good match up for Danny, he won't have to look for Thurman and Danny can punch well enough to make it interesting if he connects.

I think Thurman's explosiveness and power wins, If Danny manages to last the fight it could be one of those fights where the judges are booed and everyone laments on the decision. Angel is entertaining as well!

[billeau2]

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... and we are in full agreement. The only question I have is who do you think wins the fight between Danny Garcia and Keith Thurman? I think it's the next big fight.
I like both guys but Garcia has had a couple of forgettable fights where he looked awful. Traditionally I'd pick Thurman to beat him but Garcia manages to step up when faced with stiff competition so it's a hard call for me but I like Thurman's chances.

You really don't have to agree with me lol. I respond to people who make intelligent arguments. Juggernaught and I share some opinions and also some disagreements about the fighting methods of antiquity. I respect anyone who makes a good argument. It also happens frequently that when specifics come into play people agree on a lot more than thought.

judo is a great example of that. The difference between guys like Draeger, and john Blume (Oyama's student in karate, also did Judo) and modern Judoka who will tell someone "you can't do that in a tournament" is night and day. The post war police force in Japan was trained in Judo, with the benefit of many of the Ju Jitsu guys still around...These guys were alleged to walk into a bar brawl, or other situations with unruly sailors...and clear the bar out.

But to articulate the point that MMA as a sport depends a lot on strength and other non martial arts related qualities makes a lot of sense. Interesting aside: You can search far and wide and until macheda came on the scene, you will not find a karate stylist fighting in these tourneys with the gracies and in mma. You see a lot of bouncing up and down, kick boxing, but no karate. When Macheda brought, of all the arts, Shotokan into the octogan, he showed how karate can be applied. He also studied other arts of course, they all have to do so.

[Mzembe]

judo is a great example of that. The difference between guys like Draeger, and john Blume (Oyama's student in karate, also did Judo) and modern Judoka who will tell someone "you can't do that in a tournament" is night and day. The post war police force in Japan was trained in Judo, with the benefit of many of the Ju Jitsu guys still around...These guys were alleged to walk into a bar brawl, or other situations with unruly sailors...and clear the bar out.

But to articulate the point that MMA as a sport depends a lot on strength and other non martial arts related qualities makes a lot of sense. Interesting aside: You can search far and wide and until macheda came on the scene, you will not find a karate stylist fighting in these tourneys with the gracies and in mma. You see a lot of bouncing up and down, kick boxing, but no karate. When Macheda brought, of all the arts, Shotokan into the octogan, he showed how karate can be applied. He also studied other arts of course, they all have to do so.

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That's really my sentiments in regards to MMA. I know Kimbo Slice is NOT an example I should use because he was really just a bum not matter how you slice him (that's a good one, don't you think?
But in 2008 I think he fought Seth Petruzelli who has some serious Karate background. He was a replacement for Shamrock. At that time he was a light heavy weight so when they offered him the fight (and more money) he didn't just grab the opportunity, he knew he would Slice up Slice and he did do that.

Point is, martial arts background does indeed make a very big difference in MMA.
Also, a boxing background is another one. I'm sure you've been following Paulie Malignaggi's rant on Connor and I agree with him. Paulie would easily beat up Conor McGregor in a straight up boxing fight.

[Anthony342]

Gosh!! I can remember things like these two gung fu guys trying to rip each other's faces with gloves...It was comicle...nobody could hurt each other, they just looked so silly.

Then of course there was "Kimo" remember Kimo Anthony? The Samoan who decided his subtle way to beat Royce or Helio? was to try to rip his arm off and beat him to death with the bloody stump.

It was a good experiment. But the Gracies had it gamed. The best fight I ever saw was in Brazil, its on a documentary like tape and features this solidly built black brazilian. The guy was a masher! He takes out a supposed Black Belt in karate, and has to fight Rorian Grace. Rorian, looking every bit the English lit professor on sabatical just gets the guy in guard and holds on for dear life. Finally submitting the guy like a while later.

Rorian never has the polish of his younger brothers but was a tough guy. I would never want to have a hulking coconut headed thug over me with the strategy being to wait him out.

Actually, not many guys used gloves until about UFC 4. Then Tank Abbot in UFC 6 and Don Frye in 8 started to make using gloves more popular.

[Anthony342]

Harrison is an interesting proposition. When Kano started Judo and wanted to make a name for himself, he went to teachers of some of the old ryu ha systems of Ju Jutsu... known as Koryu. Kano had an IQ of like 180, he was a smart man and knew the Ryuha were struggling. This was after the war and many heads of systems had to sell their art to literal collectors of these systems, just to not starve to death....The old aristocracy warlords were hurting and Kano made his move. Kano would make sure these guys had no fighters around, These guys would lose to Kano because they could not refuse a challenge and start practicing Judo along with their arts. This allowed Judo to spread quickly...judo also became a way to study other arts, for example, Don Draeger, who used Judo as a means to study BoJutsu and the sword in kashori Shinto Ryu ha.

Naturally Judo came out on top, and judo became a combat darling... You can see reflections of this even today where many special forces use Judo techniques. Virtually all the sports Jiu Jitsu techniques in MMA are also Judo oriented. Yet, despite this fact Judo has a strange relationship to MMA. Why is this?

Well one thing is Judo has become more and more regimented and exclusinary regarding techniques allowed in tournaments. judo looks more and more like Sumo every day...one ippon and the action stops. This is part of the reason sports Jiu Jitsu takes the slack up...enter harrison. The biggest difference between the Judo training Harrison does and Ronda did is this limitation on what is allowed in a tournament. Ronda's mother would have been well prepared for combat because so much more was allowed in Judo when she was an olympic champion.

With that said, it depends on how this girl is able to learn the sport of MMA and if she is well rounded enough to utilize her skills, and what skills she was able to develop as a competitor. I don't think the judo in and of itself will guarantee her much success though.

Yeah, agreed. If you wanna see another pretty good judo fighter in MMA, check out some Karo Parysian fights online sometime. He's been in the big two promotions before, UFC and Bellator.