Milk or no Milk (Dairy vs. no Dairy Diet?)

[DaaamnSon]

So what about Almond, Soy or Rice milk?

[BuakawBanchamek]

So what about Almond, Soy or Rice milk?

They obviously don't contain any animal saturated fat and Cholesterol.
So unless they contain no sugar, they are perfectly fine
and even healthy by containing minerals and vitamins.

[Redd Foxx]

Regarding the eggs comment, that's nonsense. They're great for you, so long as you're eating correctly.

Milk can be fine and no, it's not giving healthy people cancer. Saturated fats and cholesterol are required in our diet. This isn't 1965 and we're still making great discoveries every year regarding lipids and heart disease.
One more realistic problem with milk is that people tend to develop a lactose intolerance as they age. Not just "lactose intolerant" people. Most people. Your ability to digest lactose decreases and this varies wildly from person to person.

I stopped drinking milk about 15 years ago because it started making me feel like garbage. Recently, I've discovered that I can actually tolerate most brands of organic milk, and actually feel great when I add it to a protein shake. As with anything dietary, it really depends on the person, the amount, genetic factors etc. I have a bit of experience in the field of nutrition and the one rule I've learned is never to believe anyone who takes a black and white view of nutrition. For decades we've had people trying to put dramatic spin on what is healthy or not and they nearly always look foolish in the long run. Moderation and balance are the only proven path.

[BuakawBanchamek]

Regarding the eggs comment, that's nonsense. They're great for you, so long as you're eating correctly.

Milk can be fine and no, it's not giving healthy people cancer. Saturated fats and cholesterol are required in our diet. This isn't 1965 and we're still making great discoveries every year regarding lipids and heart disease.
One more realistic problem with milk is that people tend to develop a lactose intolerance as they age. Not just "lactose intolerant" people. Most people. Your ability to digest lactose decreases and this varies wildly from person to person.

Again, as you do not post any scientific evidence to base your claims upon just like the others did your statement is completely irrelevant.

LDL-Cholesterol is not an essential nutrient. And we already know that a diet high in saturated fat acts inflammatory and contributes to heart disease.

Eggs are extremely high in saturated fat and Cholesterol, so no they are not fine and not healthy.

Milk IS a risk factor for cancer and actually feeds cancer cells, making your cancer worse.

Milk is a risk factor for prostate cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15203374

Milk contains large amounts of Estrogens as well as linked to cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...c0005-0044.pdf

Milk raises IGF-1 levels which increases your risk of cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...pdf/kwr289.pdf

Saturated fat contained in Milk acts inflammatory:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16904539

Cholesterol ,contained in Milk as well as meat and eggs, raises your LDL Cholesterol score:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1534437

Cholestorl ,contained in Milk, is the only risk factor for atheroscl****** :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/

[Richard P]

Regarding the eggs comment, that's nonsense. They're great for you, so long as you're eating correctly.

Milk can be fine and no, it's not giving healthy people cancer. Saturated fats and cholesterol are required in our diet. This isn't 1965 and we're still making great discoveries every year regarding lipids and heart disease.
One more realistic problem with milk is that people tend to develop a lactose intolerance as they age. Not just "lactose intolerant" people. Most people. Your ability to digest lactose decreases and this varies wildly from person to person.

I stopped drinking milk about 15 years ago because it started making me feel like garbage. Recently, I've discovered that I can actually tolerate most brands of organic milk, and actually feel great when I add it to a protein shake. As with anything dietary, it really depends on the person, the amount, genetic factors etc. I have a bit of experience in the field of nutrition and the one rule I've learned is never to believe anyone who takes a black and white view of nutrition. For decades we've had people trying to put dramatic spin on what is healthy or not and they nearly always look foolish in the long run. Moderation and balance are the only proven path.

Agreed, we all have heard stories of people smoking 20 cigs a day for 50 years and are now well into their 80's and still going strong or competent marathon runners dropping dead with heart failure. (Look at nearly all the Rolling Stones for Christ sake, booze, **** and drug ****tails for 40 years)

My brother is a nutritionist, I mentioned this conversation yesterday and he basically said nothing in excess or exclusive, everything in moderation is more than adequate for nearly all people (excluding intolerance and extreme obesity)

[Redd Foxx]

Again, as you do not post any scientific evidence to base your claims upon just like the others did your statement is completely irrelevant.

LDL-Cholesterol is not an essential nutrient. And we already know that a diet high in saturated fat acts inflammatory and contributes to heart disease.

Eggs are extremely high in saturated fat and Cholesterol, so no they are not fine and not healthy.

Milk IS a risk factor for cancer and actually feeds cancer cells, making your cancer worse.

Milk is a risk factor for prostate cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15203374

Milk contains large amounts of Estrogens as well as linked to cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...c0005-0044.pdf

Milk raises IGF-1 levels which increases your risk of cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...pdf/kwr289.pdf

Saturated fat contained in Milk acts inflammatory:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16904539

Cholesterol ,contained in Milk as well as meat and eggs, raises your LDL Cholesterol score:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1534437

Cholestorl ,contained in Milk, is the only risk factor for atheroscl****** :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/

The reason I didn't post any sources because it's common knowledge that milk isn't killing people. Do you need me to provide a source if I say water is wet?

Eggs have numerous benefits. You seems to be under this narrow-minded opinion that if something raises your ldl, that it's entirely bad. We NEED some degree of CHOLESTEROL and SATURATED FAT. FFS, get educated. One could argue that everything we consume is potentially destructive. I've know many extremists who live like this and it's really no life at all.

As I said, you must also consider genetic factors. Inuit tribes consume high amounts of whale blubber (saturated fat) with little to no fiber in their diets but are mostly free of heart disease and cancer. What propaganda do you have to address that??

If someone is suffering a condition where they need to lower their LDL, then dietary adjustments must be made. I'm someone who actually suffers from LOW cholesterol, including low LDL and have studied lipids and the heart extensively to better understand my condition do don't think you're going to steamroll me with "saturated fat is bad" nonsense. It's bad in excess and bad when certain conditions are present.

As I said, I avoided milk for 15 years and even now only have very little. But, I know it would be wrong to try to mislead people into thinking it's a scourge. They can see it's not and you only make yourself sound foolish when you try telling them the world is flat.

[Richard P]

You do know science is the best guess we have until someone comes along with a better guess?

[BuakawBanchamek]

Agreed, we all have heard stories of people smoking 20 cigs a day for 50 years and are now well into their 80's and still going strong or competent marathon runners dropping dead with heart failure. (Look at nearly all the Rolling Stones for Christ sake, booze, **** and drug ****tails for 40 years)

My brother is a nutritionist, I mentioned this conversation yesterday and he basically said nothing in excess or exclusive, everything in moderation is more than adequate for nearly all people (excluding intolerance and extreme obesity)

People that are chain smokers but live till their 80s are anomalies.
They have for instance certain mutations that make them more or less resistant to developing cancer.
But that does not mean that cigarettes are perfectly fine, right?

And a sporty lifestyle does not garantue heart health. You can run all day but if you arteries are clogged up by eating too much saturated fat and Cholesterol you will devolope heart disease eventually.

The "everything in moderation" argument does not count.
We know for a FACT, that animal products are very high in saturated fat and cholesterol which both are risk factors for alzheimer, heart disease and even diabetes, as well as methionine in animal products growing your cancer.

Yeah sure, a steak every month won't kill you but you will have to eat very very little animal products to not risk any of these disease. Like I said, the optimal serum CHolesterol level is 50-70. Obtaining that by eating animal products is virtually impossible.

Overall, animal products are bad.

[BuakawBanchamek]

You do know science is the best guess we have until someone comes along with a better guess?

Yeah and mainstream science strongly suggest that animal products increase all cause mortality.


Unless you are able to come up with some scientific evidence and refute pretty much most experts on heart disease and cancer research, the fact remains that animal products are bad.

[BuakawBanchamek]

The reason I didn't post any sources because it's common knowledge that milk isn't killing people. Do you need me to provide a source if I say water is wet?

Eggs have numerous benefits. You seems to be under this narrow-minded opinion that if something raises your ldl, that it's entirely bad. We NEED some degree of CHOLESTEROL and SATURATED FAT. FFS, get educated. One could argue that everything we consume is potentially destructive. I've know many extremists who live like this and it's really no life at all.

As I said, you must also consider genetic factors. Inuit tribes consume high amounts of whale blubber (saturated fat) with little to no fiber in their diets but are mostly free of heart disease and cancer. What propaganda do you have to address that??

If someone is suffering a condition where they need to lower their LDL, then dietary adjustments must be made. I'm someone who actually suffers from LOW cholesterol, including low LDL and have studied lipids and the heart extensively to better understand my condition do don't think you're going to steamroll me with "saturated fat is bad" nonsense. It's bad in excess and bad when certain conditions are present.

As I said, I avoided milk for 15 years and even now only have very little. But, I know it would be wrong to try to mislead people into thinking it's a scourge. They can see it's not and you only make yourself sound foolish when you try telling them the world is flat.

The reason you don't post any research is because you know jack**** about how to argue in a scientificial argument.
Plenty research that I provided suggest that animal products are bad. We have MECHANISTIC DATA that actually support that idea.

"Eggs have numerous benefits" - I don't care about the benefits of eating eggs, the fact that it contains saturated fat and large amounts of Cholesterol overshadow the benefits. Why would you wanna get some B12 for instance if that food actually KILLS you.

"We need some Cholesterol" - again, no LDL-Cholesterol, dietary cholesterol is not essential. Dietary Cholesterol is the only risk factor for Arteriosclerosis.

"As I said, you must also consider genetic factors"
Yeah definitely. Some people are pretty much resistant to dietary Cholesterol. But that does not mean that the rest who do not have a genetical restistance can freely consume dietary cholesterol. Majority of people don't have a genetical mutation.

"Inuit tribes consume high amounts of whale blubber (saturated fat) with little to no fiber in their diets but are mostly free of heart disease and cancer. "
Prove to me that Inuits are mostly free of heart disease and cancer. Show me any statistics that Inuits have lower chance of developing heart disease and actually living longer. Again, learn to debate in a scientific argument.

" It's bad in excess and bad when certain conditions are present. "

The conditions are present in most people who do not have genetic restistance.
Like I said, the optimal serum Cholesterol score is between 50-70. People who do not have a gene mutation can not obtain that without eating very very little to no animal products.


"But, I know it would be wrong to try to mislead people into thinking it's a scourge. They can see it's not and you only make yourself sound foolish when you try telling them the world is flat."

Yeah actually proving my claims with research and basing them on science is a scourge. I definitely make a fool out of myself by providing evidence on my claims. lol