Milk or no Milk (Dairy vs. no Dairy Diet?)

[BuakawBanchamek]

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/p...d-201502127713

harvard medical school 'Cholesterol is not considered a nutrient of concern for overconsumption.” They dont seem so sure its a fact?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0524001009.htm

A diet rich in milk does not increase the risk of heart disease and stroke, and may even be protective, concludes research in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health.

1. Did you even read the first study you mentioned?
It shows specifically how LDL Cholesterol causes heart disease.
"Why is blood cholesterol a concern? Too much of it, especially in the wrong kind of particle, can cause trouble inside blood vessels (see “From cholesterol to crisis” below). Harmful low-density lipoprotein (LDL) particles ferry cholesterol to artery walls" - thats a quote from your study lol. And we know
the optimal Cholesterol score lies between 50-70 units.
So unless you eat little to no animal products you will very like not achieve that optimum range to prevent heart disease



2. The study you referenced is faulty by design. Cross-sectional studies are not adequate in finding a link between diet and heart disease.
You have to measure the serum Cholesterol level CHANGE

So overall the fact that milk, as well as animal products, is not healthy remains.


Here research about adequate study designs:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/313701

Here research about optimum Cholesterol scores:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/.../2757.full.pdf

Here Cholesterol risk factor for heart disease:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23083789
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/.../2757.full.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1534437
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/

[Madison Boxing]

1. Did you even read the first study you mentioned?
It shows specifically how LDL Cholesterol causes heart disease.
"Why is blood cholesterol a concern? Too much of it, especially in the wrong kind of particle, can cause trouble inside blood vessels (see “From cholesterol to crisis” below). Harmful low-density lipoprotein (LDL) particles ferry cholesterol to artery walls" - thats a quote from your study lol. And we know
the optimal Cholesterol score lies between 50-70 units.
So unless you eat little to no animal products you will very like not achieve that optimum range to prevent heart disease



2. The study you referenced is faulty by design. Cross-sectional studies are not adequate in finding a link between diet and heart disease.
You have to measure the serum Cholesterol level CHANGE

So overall the fact that milk, as well as animal products, is not healthy remains.


Here research about adequate study designs:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/313701

Here research about optimum Cholesterol scores:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/.../2757.full.pdf

Here Cholesterol risk factor for heart disease:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23083789
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/.../2757.full.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1534437
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/

no i didnt analyse the studies lol. but yeah ldl is bad but the point was that ingestion of cholesterol doesnt correlate with blood cholesterol and what you put doesnt change that, cholesterol is largely synthesised by the body.I have a scientific background, i had a quick skim of the earlier links you put and could tear them to shreds with a proper appraisal tool just as you could tear apart mine. Theres no consensus in many of these dietarydebates with poor quality evidence on both sides/ As one of the other posters alluded to theres often witch hunts on certain types of food and then the focus shifts to another. You might be completely correct in saying dairy is terrible but thats just the way i see it

[BuakawBanchamek]

no i didnt analyse the studies lol. but yeah ldl is bad but the point was that ingestion of cholesterol doesnt correlate with blood cholesterol and what you put doesnt change that, cholesterol is largely synthesised by the body.I have a scientific background, i had a quick skim of the earlier links you put and could tear them to shreds with a proper appraisal tool just as you could tear apart mine. Theres no consensus in many of these dietarydebates with poor quality evidence on both sides/ As one of the other posters alluded to theres often witch hunts on certain types of food and then the focus shifts to another. You might be completely correct in saying dairy is terrible but thats just the way i see it

1. There is a difference between dietary Cholesterol and body produced Cholesterol. One is not essential and actually bad for you the other is essential. The funny thing is that not only the several studies that I linked support that, but also the study that YOU linked trying to refute the Fact that
dietary Cholesterol causes heart disease.
And as I have already shown in several studies, dietary Cholesterol leves raise your serum Cholesterol levels which will lead to heart disease. I also mentioned and linked a study that specifically said that the study design your link had is not adequate for tracking the correlation between dietary Cholesterol and Cholesterol levels.
Again HERE
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/313701


2. " I have a scientific background", yeah taking Biology in Highschool is no "scientific background" lol. In all seriousness tho, the way you reason and provide no evidence to your claims are sure indicators for a great scientist.

3. "could tear them to shreds with a proper appraisal tool"
- Again, how about you actually back up your assertions?
I doubt tho that some dude on a Boxing Forum is more credible than experts on heart disease.

4. "As one of the other posters alluded to theres often witch hunts on certain types of food and then the focus shifts to another."
Unless you can refute hundreds of studies done by experts on heart disease, diabetes and cancer research, animal products will remain unhealthy.
Don't forget, even the largest Dietetic Organisations like the World Health Organisation and the American Dietetic Association
acknowledge the risk that animal products bear and even recommend replacing them out of your diet.

[PRINCEKOOL]

[Madison Boxing]

1. There is a difference between dietary Cholesterol and body produced Cholesterol. One is not essential and actually bad for you the other is essential. The funny thing is that not only the several studies that I linked support that, but also the study that YOU linked trying to refute the Fact that
dietary Cholesterol causes heart disease.
And as I have already shown in several studies, dietary Cholesterol leves raise your serum Cholesterol levels which will lead to heart disease. I also mentioned and linked a study that specifically said that the study design your link had is not adequate for tracking the correlation between dietary Cholesterol and Cholesterol levels.
Again HERE
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/313701


2. " I have a scientific background", yeah taking Biology in Highschool is no "scientific background" lol. In all seriousness tho, the way you reason and provide no evidence to your claims are sure indicators for a great scientist.

3. "could tear them to shreds with a proper appraisal tool"
- Again, how about you actually back up your assertions?
I doubt tho that some dude on a Boxing Forum is more credible than experts on heart disease.

4. "As one of the other posters alluded to theres often witch hunts on certain types of food and then the focus shifts to another."
Unless you can refute hundreds of studies done by experts on heart disease, diabetes and cancer research, animal products will remain unhealthy.
Don't forget, even the largest Dietetic Organisations like the World Health Organisation and the American Dietetic Association
acknowledge the risk that animal products bear and even recommend replacing them out of your diet.

cause im not going into depth and analysing **** in depth for a debate on a boxing forum, thats not some copout but genuinely have better things to do than spend hours sifting through studies to prove a point. I have 5 years of uni experience in science and a masters degree in it lol, not some broscientist. Fact is theres not the consensus that you are making out, the studies on that first post looked iffy on first glance (one had like 10 participants and one was for adolescents) point im making it read different **** and contradictory dietary advice every day, these things go full circle. Atkins diet was the miracle cure at one point now its demonised. A glass of milk a day isnt going to do **** lol. This is my last post on the topic bro.

[BuakawBanchamek]

cause im not going into depth and analysing **** in depth for a debate on a boxing forum, thats not some copout but genuinely have better things to do than spend hours sifting through studies to prove a point. I have 5 years of uni experience in science and a masters degree in it lol, not some broscientist. Fact is theres not the consensus that you are making out, the studies on that first post looked iffy on first glance (one had like 10 participants and one was for adolescents) point im making it read different **** and contradictory dietary advice every day, these things go full circle. Atkins diet was the miracle cure at one point now its demonised. A glass of milk a day isnt going to do **** lol. This is my last post on the topic bro.

I were actually able to point out the flaws in your studies especially
how epidemiological study designs are not adequate for heart disease research and all you got to say is "i ain't wasting my time refuting your scientific evidence" quite pathetic

In the end, yes a glass of milk is going to do ****. As it contains, saturated fat, cholesterol, large amounts of estrogen, methionine and antibiotics drinking even a glass of milk a day is increasing your risk of all cause mortality quite significant.
And I already pointed out how low you have to be on your serum Cholesterol score to actually prevent heart disease from happening.

[Richard P]

not that i am stirring - NHS says i can eat as many eggs as i want

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/...nutrition.aspx

[BuakawBanchamek]

not that i am stirring - NHS says i can eat as many eggs as i want

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/...nutrition.aspx

Did you even read the blog article?
It even tells you how Cholesterol is related to heart disease.

If we look on Chronometer, 1 egg contains 160 mg of Cholesterol. 160!!

And as I already stated, the relationship that saturated fat and Cholesterol have with heart disease and considering that
you have to have a serum Cholesterol score of 50-70 to prevent heart disease eggs are freaking unhealthy and dangerous.


And lets not forget, this is a BLOG ARTICLE. No scientific research.
So completely irrelevant and useless.

[Richard P]

The point in my post was to show you that this is on the NHS website. The National Health Service (the free health care that is the envy of the world) the Health Care system that governs over 60 Million Brits. So we are told these things from higher authority that one minute you can eat this, the next you cant - which was the original point/argument from the previous posts

all diets, foods, super foods, are just like fashion. They arrive have their time in the spotlight, something better takes the lime light, they disappear and then 30 years later it all comes around again

[BuakawBanchamek]

The point in my post was to show you that this is on the NHS website. The National Health Service (the free health care that is the envy of the world) the Health Care system that governs over 60 Million Brits. So we are told these things from higher authority that one minute you can eat this, the next you cant - which was the original point/argument from the previous posts

all diets, foods, super foods, are just like fashion. They arrive have their time in the spotlight, something better takes the lime light, they disappear and then 30 years later it all comes around again

The difference is tho that NHS does not rely on a single scientific research while making this statement.
The American Dietetic Association and the World Health Organisation the two biggest Health Organisations
support the idea of cutting out animal products and in the other case actually proven that meat is a risk factor for cancer.
They rely upon scientific research that I have listed for example.

I have no problem explaining it again.
Dietary Cholesterol and saturated fat in animal products increase our serum Cholesterol level which causes your arteries to clog up, leading to heart disease.
That is the mechanistic data we have found. And all you guys have listed is a irrelevant statement based upon nothing and a wrongly designed study which is not suitable for finding a correlation between diet and heart disease.

And that is only the Heart disease part. Methionine found in animal products directly feed cancer cells for instance.