Milk or no Milk (Dairy vs. no Dairy Diet?)

[Mr.MojoRisin']

The reason you don't post any research is because you know jack**** about how to argue in a scientificial argument.
Plenty research that I provided suggest that animal products are bad. We have MECHANISTIC DATA that actually support that idea.

"Eggs have numerous benefits" - I don't care about the benefits of eating eggs, the fact that it contains saturated fat and large amounts of Cholesterol overshadow the benefits. Why would you wanna get some B12 for instance if that food actually KILLS you.

"We need some Cholesterol" - again, no LDL-Cholesterol, dietary cholesterol is not essential. Dietary Cholesterol is the only risk factor for Arteriosclerosis.

"As I said, you must also consider genetic factors"
Yeah definitely. Some people are pretty much resistant to dietary Cholesterol. But that does not mean that the rest who do not have a genetical restistance can freely consume dietary cholesterol. Majority of people don't have a genetical mutation.

"Inuit tribes consume high amounts of whale blubber (saturated fat) with little to no fiber in their diets but are mostly free of heart disease and cancer. "
Prove to me that Inuits are mostly free of heart disease and cancer. Show me any statistics that Inuits have lower chance of developing heart disease and actually living longer. Again, learn to debate in a scientific argument.

" It's bad in excess and bad when certain conditions are present. "

The conditions are present in most people who do not have genetic restistance.
Like I said, the optimal serum Cholesterol score is between 50-70. People who do not have a gene mutation can not obtain that without eating very very little to no animal products.


"But, I know it would be wrong to try to mislead people into thinking it's a scourge. They can see it's not and you only make yourself sound foolish when you try telling them the world is flat."

Yeah actually proving my claims with research and basing them on science is a scourge. I definitely make a fool out of myself by providing evidence on my claims. lol

Wait hold on....so how many eggs and how many oz's of milk per day are you saying is bad for the average person?

[BuakawBanchamek]

Wait hold on....so how many eggs and how many oz's of milk per day are you saying is bad for the average person?

Any animal product is bad for you really.
You would have to eat very very little amounts of animal products to not have an bad impact on your Cholesterol level for instance.

However I can't find any specific research on that saying 1 egg a week is still tolerable but 2 ain't e.g without spending a little more time.


The closest I have found during a quick search is this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001684

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Any animal product is bad for you really.
You would have to eat very very little amounts of animal products to not have an bad impact on your Cholesterol level for instance.

However I can't find any specific research on that saying 1 egg a week is still tolerable but 2 ain't e.g without spending a little more time.


The closest I have found during a quick search is this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001684

Well there it is right there. It says 2 eggs per day. On the carton it tells you what percent of the recommended amount of cholseterol a person should have each day, is in one egg. According to my carton in the refrigerator, one egg contains approximately 62% of the daily value. Eating two would give you 124% so obviously cholesterol levels will increase.

It seems the problem is more with poor eating habits than the actual food being unhealthy.

Humans were designed to eat meat and drink milk. Baby mammals drink milk, and you sir, are a baby mammal.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Eating an 8 oz steak is healthier than eating a cheese pizza. That's not rocket science.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28610484

Contains red meat, processed meat, fish, EGGS, CHEESE

It's all about portion control as shown in this study. Too much of anything isn't healthy.

[BuakawBanchamek]

Eating an 8 oz steak is healthier than eating a cheese pizza. That's not rocket science.

We have MECHANISTIC DATA. We know exactly that Cholesterol causes heart disease.

Meat is never healthy as it contains high amounts of saturated fat, cholesterol and methionine.


Your linked study is completely useless.
It does not state how many participants were observed.
It was only conducted for 3 years.
It even said that reducing your red meat, egg and cheese intake was associated with better health. So it pretty much supports the idea of a plant based diet being healthy.
Population studies or obversation studies are not adequate in finding mechanistic data about things like heart disease.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

We have MECHANISTIC DATA. We know exactly that Cholesterol causes heart disease.

Meat is never healthy as it contains high amounts of saturated fat, cholesterol and methionine.


Your linked study is completely useless.
It does not state how many participants were observed.
It was only conducted for 3 years.
It even said that reducing your red meat, egg and cheese intake was associated with better health. So it pretty much supports the idea of a plant based diet being healthy.
Population studies or obversation studies are not adequate in finding mechanistic data about things like heart disease.

Saturated fats, cholesterol, and Methionine (an amino acid that is essential to bodily processes) are all needed to live.

You're a hypocrite.
Your study did not state how many participants were involved.
Your study was conducted for 3 weeks moron.
No, it said " A significantly higher choice of dishes based on wholegrain cereals, legumes, white meat and fish, and a lower choice of dishes based on refined cereals, red and processed meat, eggs". That means portion control.

It doesn't "pretty much" support a plant based diet or a meat based diet. It supports a healthy balance between the two. Portion control.

You don't understand that for some reason.

[Furn]

Theres supposed evidence both ways. Meta-analysis is pretty easy to push one way or another if you select your data well.

It's certainly not true that animal products are bad for you across the board no matter how much or what you eat.

eg. Milk is good for you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/

The most recent evidence suggested that intake of milk and dairy products was associated with reduced risk of childhood obesity. In adults, intake of dairy products was shown to improve body composition and facilitate weight loss during energy restriction. In addition, intake of milk and dairy products was associated with a neutral or reduced risk of type 2 diabetes and a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease, particularly stroke. Furthermore, the evidence suggested a beneficial effect of milk and dairy intake on bone mineral density but no association with risk of bone fracture. Among cancers, milk and dairy intake was inversely associated with colorectal cancer, bladder cancer, gastric cancer, and breast cancer, and not associated with risk of pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer, or lung cancer, while the evidence for prostate cancer risk was inconsistent. Finally, consumption of milk and dairy products was not associated with all-cause mortality. Calcium-fortified plant-based drinks have been included as an alternative to dairy products in the nutrition recommendations in several countries. However, nutritionally, cow's milk and plant-based drinks are completely different foods, and an evidence-based conclusion on the health value of the plant-based drinks requires more studies in humans.

Lean meat is also good for you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/

Substantial evidence from recent studies shows that lean red meat trimmed of visible fat does not raise total blood cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol levels. Dietary intake of total and saturated fat mainly comes from fast foods, snack foods, oils, spreads, other processed foods and the visible fat of meat, rather than lean meat. In fact, lean red meat is low in saturated fat, and if consumed in a diet low in SFA is associated with reductions in LDL-cholesterol in both healthy and hypercholesterolemia subjects. Lean red meat consumption has no effect on in vivo and ex vivo production of thromboxane and prostacyclin or the activity of haemostatic factors. Lean red meat is also a good source of protein, omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin B12, niacin, zinc and iron. In conclusion, lean red meat, trimmed of visible fat, which is consumed in a diet low in saturated fat does not increase cardiovascular risk factors (plasma cholesterol levels or thrombotic risk factors).

[BuakawBanchamek]

Theres supposed evidence both ways. Meta-analysis is pretty easy to push one way or another if you select your data well.

It's certainly not true that animal products are bad for you across the board no matter how much or what you eat.

eg. Milk is good for you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/

The most recent evidence suggested that intake of milk and dairy products was associated with reduced risk of childhood obesity. In adults, intake of dairy products was shown to improve body composition and facilitate weight loss during energy restriction. In addition, intake of milk and dairy products was associated with a neutral or reduced risk of type 2 diabetes and a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease, particularly stroke. Furthermore, the evidence suggested a beneficial effect of milk and dairy intake on bone mineral density but no association with risk of bone fracture. Among cancers, milk and dairy intake was inversely associated with colorectal cancer, bladder cancer, gastric cancer, and breast cancer, and not associated with risk of pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer, or lung cancer, while the evidence for prostate cancer risk was inconsistent. Finally, consumption of milk and dairy products was not associated with all-cause mortality. Calcium-fortified plant-based drinks have been included as an alternative to dairy products in the nutrition recommendations in several countries. However, nutritionally, cow's milk and plant-based drinks are completely different foods, and an evidence-based conclusion on the health value of the plant-based drinks requires more studies in humans.

Lean meat is also good for you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122229/

Substantial evidence from recent studies shows that lean red meat trimmed of visible fat does not raise total blood cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol levels. Dietary intake of total and saturated fat mainly comes from fast foods, snack foods, oils, spreads, other processed foods and the visible fat of meat, rather than lean meat. In fact, lean red meat is low in saturated fat, and if consumed in a diet low in SFA is associated with reductions in LDL-cholesterol in both healthy and hypercholesterolemia subjects. Lean red meat consumption has no effect on in vivo and ex vivo production of thromboxane and prostacyclin or the activity of haemostatic factors. Lean red meat is also a good source of protein, omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin B12, niacin, zinc and iron. In conclusion, lean red meat, trimmed of visible fat, which is consumed in a diet low in saturated fat does not increase cardiovascular risk factors (plasma cholesterol levels or thrombotic risk factors).

I quickly looked at your first study and it mentions how IGF 1 in Milk is associated with cancer, how LDL Cholesterol found in high fat milk is associated with heart disease.
Large amounts of methionine feeds cancer cells.

All this study tells you is that Milk contains nutrients like Calcium which you can easily obtain through plants.

So why the **** would you want to get dietary Cholesterol, saturated fat, methionine and IGF 1 to get single nutrients like Calcium, Protein or Vitamin K that you can get through eating plants?

EDIT:
Might reply later but you even posted it yourself. Saturated fat and dietary Cholesterol are undenyable risk factors for heart disease.
So any meat that has fat is bad for you, by your own postings without me needing to post evidence which i might do later on why completely fat free meat is still bad.
Quick question, do you never eat meat that has not been totally freed of fat?

[Richard P]

where do you stand on babies getting breast milk??????