Weight lifting and boxing?

[johnm is...]

I find the biggest problem is coaches in MMA gyms trying to turn their boxers into MMA fighters.

the way you group them together its almost as if you think one size fits all when it comes to strength training.

though its tends to be typical of people with the majority of their background in sports medicine.

Ive gone to an MMA gym, there is no better place to destroy a boxers aspirations of being something good than an MMA gym.

when you go to a Boxing gym, you are a student and are treated like one by all the people involved.

when you go to a MMA gym, you are a customer who has signed a binding contract requiring you by law to continue paying for the classes whether you go or not for at least the next year, and you are treated like that by all the people involved.

The MMA gym I went to actually went as far as to commit credit card fraud so to continue charging me after the credit information I provided had expired by using an expiration date different than the one I supplied to them.

can you imagine that? its march 2010 your cards expired, your bank sends you a replacement card, the same account number, march 2011 expiration date. you check your bank account and find that the MMA gym is still charging you even through the credit information you provided them expired last month?????

This was a Renzo Gracie MMA Gym.

the average MMA gym will provide a person with only Boxing classes at about 50$s a month, if you decide to go with the unlimited class package at signup offering access to all classes, both mma and Boxing, you will pay around 75$s a month. But if you sign up for the boxing classes and want to upgrade to the unlimited classes later on it will cost you around 100$s a month.

a mma gym will make any where from 25-50$ more each month recruiting some one in mma than some one just interested in boxing.

I wouldn't be surprise if MMA Coaches specifically deceive boxers by exaggerating the importance of strength training to get them into MMA rather than boxing.

What are you talking about, "the way I grouped them together" ?

I grouped them together in the sense that "fighters have egos" not that "all fighters should train the same".

Talk about drawing your own conclusion.

[Spartacus Sully]

This is an example of how I work my schedule:

Mon - boxing
Tuesday - boxing
Wed - hang cleans (x5) military press (x5) squats (x5) Abs
Thur - bench (x5) weighted pullups (x4)/ bag work after
Fri - boxing
Saturday - bent over rows (x4) incline dumbbell bench (x4) then 5 sets of biceps and triceps
Sunday - Bag work.

(I highly suggest rest days. I just have trained every day for prolly a few yrs and fought through feeling like **** and got use to training daily and feeling good. I'm also prolly out of my mind to an extent.
)

Id say youd be alot more successful with a routine like this:


Mon - MMA
Tuesday - MMA
Wed - hang cleans (x5) military press (x5) squats (x5) Abs
Thur - bench (x5) weighted pullups (x4)/ bag work after
Fri - MMA
Saturday - bent over rows (x4) incline dumbbell bench (x4) then 5 sets of biceps and triceps
Sunday - Bag work.

[Spartacus Sully]

weightlifting for boxing can be both beneficial or counterproductive depending on how you do it. you did mention bodybuilding though which is all wrong for boxing. you lift that way and it will hold you back tremendously.

you need to lift for strength and muscle conditioning with an emphasis on maintaining speed and agility, simply trying to bulk up and get big for the sake of being big is a terrible idea. you will just be slow, have poor stamina, poor power and poor punch resistance at the weight. you will just suck.

always think speed, mobility, agility and stamina first in boxing. thats the areas you should try to improve physically at the highest rate. strength holds lesser priority, i lift weights myself but i always keep that in mind. i focus on the more important things and simply try to max my strength in relation to those abilities.

im going to be honest with you, the easiest guys i boxed in training or competition have almost exclusively been heavily muscled guys. i boxed some shredded guys who were total monsters too but they trained to be good boxers, not to be big big and their size came more from genetics than anything.

DO NOT train for the mirror, train for the ring.

Great Post, especially the bold

[Spartacus Sully]

What are you talking about, "the way I grouped them together" ?

I grouped them together in the sense that "fighters have egos" not that "all fighters should train the same".

Talk about drawing your own conclusion.

"all fighters should strength train the same"

[johnm is...]

"all fighters should strength train the same"

You're acting awfully arrogant for someone that's wrong.

[johnm is...]

Deadlift, squat, bench, are essential strength training exercises, obv.

An MMA routine, would have a lot more sport specific exercises. Towel hangs, farmers walk, etc.

[HedonisticFrog]

maximal strength and explosive strength play a very small role in boxing, mainly in the clinches and when throwing short punches that dont fully extend.


VO2 max, lactic threshold, resting heart rate, technique, and maximal speed are all much more important.

as far as punching, the force of an impact only deals with the speed of the object at impact and how much it weighs.

if the maximal speed of your fist is 15 mphs it dosnt matter if you can dead lift 800 lbs, the guy thats the same size and can throw a punch at 25 mphs is going to hit you harder than you can hit him, even if he can only dead lift 100 lbs.

Hand speed at the time of impact isn't the only factor that influences punching power, otherwise jabs would be the most powerful punches. George Foreman didn't throw very fast punches but still knocked out a lot of people even when he was old. After impact you need to continue transferring the momentum you created to your target in order for the punch to be powerful. To do this you need every link in the chain to be as strong as possible to transfer as much power as possible, and you won't be able to maximize this with just boxing drills or high reps of low weight.

Also, lactic acid is beneficial to exercise since it's converted into glucose and pyruvate which are used for energy. This has been known since the 70's. Resting heart rate can be an indicator of cardiovascular conditioning but doesn't have a direct effect on exercise since you aren't resting when you fight.

John is 100% correct. I actually studied to be a nasm personal trainer before I decided to go back to school and box.then

5 sets of biceps and triceps
)

NASM isn't anything to brag about, I got mine right after high school and I know exactly what it teaches you. It just teaches you enough to get by as a personal trainer. If you really want to try to hold titles over other people, try getting a BS in Exercise Physiology and then we'll talk.

The fact you recommend doing exercises that isolate biceps and triceps is a terrible idea considering the limited strength training you can do as a boxer. Compound exercises are much more beneficial to overall strength.

[Spartacus Sully]

Hand speed at the time of impact isn't the only factor that influences punching power, otherwise jabs would be the most powerful punches. George Foreman didn't throw very fast punches but still knocked out a lot of people even when he was old. After impact you need to continue transferring the momentum you created to your target in order for the punch to be powerful. To do this you need every link in the chain to be as strong as possible to transfer as much power as possible, and you won't be able to maximize this with just boxing drills or high reps of low weight.

Also, lactic acid is beneficial to exercise since it's converted into glucose and pyruvate which are used for energy. This has been known since the 70's. Resting heart rate can be an indicator of cardiovascular conditioning but doesn't have a direct effect on exercise since you aren't resting when you fight.

Kenetic energy is the energy of moving objects. if you drop a pool ball, you can take the velocity of that pool ball at any point and its weight to calculate how much energy it contains. same for a fist, you take the mass thats moving with the punch, and its speed to calculate its keniti energy.

though still you are right, there is the elasticity of impact as far as how much of that kenitic energy is transfered into force. can your wrist take the punch with out folding? can you make a fist at impact like dempsey reccomended? thats all you need.

a right straight vs a jab is a matter of mass, not strength, a jab has your shoulder in it, a right straight has your shoulder and back.

also a jab is not fast, it is short. when you factor in the rotation of your body with a right straight, it travels much fruther alowing a higher velocity at impact.



in 1974 george forman was 25 years old, muhummad ali was 34 years old.

do you honestly think a 25 year old Joe louis would have gone 8 rounds with a 34 year old ali only to get knocked out??

forman could not punch, he could club, and push people around, but thats to expect as thats what strength allows you to do. if you want to see a george forman that could punch, check out the chuvalo fight.



youll also notice from the equation above that velocity is exponentially more important than mass.

[ShoulderRoll]

George Foreman didn't throw very fast punches but still knocked out a lot of people even when he was old.

Did George Foreman do a lot of squats, deadlifts, and bench presses though?

[HedonisticFrog]

Kenetic energy is the energy of moving objects. if you drop a pool ball, you can take the velocity of that pool ball at any point and its weight to calculate how much energy it contains. same for a fist, you take the mass thats moving with the punch, and its speed to calculate its keniti energy.

though still you are right, there is the elasticity of impact as far as how much of that kenitic energy is transfered into force. can your wrist take the punch with out folding? can you make a fist at impact like dempsey reccomended? thats all you need.

a right straight vs a jab is a matter of mass, not strength, a jab has your shoulder in it, a right straight has your shoulder and back.

also a jab is not fast, it is short. when you factor in the rotation of your body with a right straight, it travels much fruther alowing a higher velocity at impact.



in 1974 george forman was 25 years old, muhummad ali was 34 years old.

do you honestly think a 25 year old Joe louis would have gone 8 rounds with a 34 year old ali only to get knocked out??

forman could not punch, he could club, and push people around, but thats to expect as thats what strength allows you to do. if you want to see a george forman that could punch, check out the chuvalo fight.



youll also notice from the equation above that velocity is exponentially more important than mass.

You need a lot more strength needed for a powerful punch than just enough to keep your fist straight. You need enough upper body strength to transfer your torso's momentum into your opponent as well. If your pecs and shoulders are weak your shoulder would give more and your body's momentum would be wasted.

I wasn't bringing up Foreman to talk about his boxing ability. It was merely to show that you can have a guy that throws slow punches that are powerful. If speed was the most important factor in punching hard he should be feather fisted instead of knocking people out.

Did George Foreman do a lot of squats, deadlifts, and bench presses though?

My point wasn't about whether he lifted weights or not. It was to show that slow punches can be powerful.