Weight lifting and boxing?

[HedonisticFrog]

you do light weight exercises for speed and endurance, not strength unless you want to consider speed and endurance types of strength which is fine.

as i first posted:



id hope 25 reps at 20% your 1 rep max for 4 sets is not going to make you too sore to train tomorrow. as i already mentioned, John L Sullivan did a morning routine that consisted of 4 different shoulder exercises (4 sets, 1 for each exercise) done with a 2 lb weight, 40 times for each exercise (40 reps).

40 reps of 4 shoulder exercises with a 2 lb weight, is that really all that much?



and to note when i say slight hypertropy in both occurances, it is very very very minimal, the main muscle growth is from an increase in blood flow to the muscle, and im mainly talking about sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

I don't really see the benefit of such light weight training. I think boxers would be better off doing interval training on a heavy bag since that builds muscular endurance, cardio, and you can refine skills as well. It probably has a higher relative load than light weights as well.

[Jim Jeffries]

I can honestly say this is the first time I've ever seen someone advocate doing the sort of high rep routines that build slow twitch muscle fibers in order to increase speed. In boxing you need both and a workout customized to improve and/or sustain the necessary balance. Please get advice on that workout from someone who doesn't say stuff like "do high reps to build speed" and "strength doesn't help in boxing."

[johnm is...]

There's a glowing difference between what Sully is talking about, and what we're talking about.

He's talking about weight training. I'm talking about strength training. Which are two entirely different things.

Go ahead and do 25 reps at 20% of your 1RM. That's muscular endurance. Any way you slice it. That's what it is. I'm talking about 80--90% of your 1RM for 1-3 reps. To get stronger. Target the fast twitch muscle fibers to build the explosion you need for 3-5 second bursts.

There's not much point in building up your muscular endurance when that's basically exactly what you're doing in the boxing gym. If you're in the weight room, you should be there primarily to get stronger. And you're not going to do that with 20% of your 1RM.

[johnm is...]

I can honestly say this is the first time I've ever seen someone advocate doing the sort of high rep routines that build slow twitch muscle fibers in order to increase speed. In boxing you need both and a workout customized to improve and/or sustain the necessary balance. Please get advice on that workout from someone who doesn't say stuff like "do high reps to build speed" and "strength doesn't help in boxing."

This basically sums it up.

[Spartacus Sully]

I can honestly say this is the first time I've ever seen someone advocate doing the sort of high rep routines that build slow twitch muscle fibers in order to increase speed. In boxing you need both and a workout customized to improve and/or sustain the necessary balance. Please get advice on that workout from someone who doesn't say stuff like "do high reps to build speed" and "strength doesn't help in boxing."

Id be surprised if you can actually describe the routine i'm suggesting to improve speed.



Did you know that all birds that fly have something in common?

the muscles that control their wings are almost entirely slow twitch muscles.

that includes the humming bird who on average flaps its wings at 50 times a second, but can at times flap as many as 200 times a second.

that's right 50 flaps a second for hours on end thanks to slow twitch muscles.


err actually im not sure on that, some sources are saying that humming birds are entirely slow twitch and some are saying they are fast twitch, ill have to look into it more.

[Spartacus Sully]

There's a glowing difference between what Sully is talking about, and what we're talking about.

He's talking about weight training. I'm talking about strength training. Which are two entirely different things.

Go ahead and do 25 reps at 20% of your 1RM. That's muscular endurance. Any way you slice it. That's what it is. I'm talking about 80--90% of your 1RM for 1-3 reps. To get stronger. Target the fast twitch muscle fibers to build the explosion you need for 3-5 second bursts.

There's not much point in building up your muscular endurance when that's basically exactly what you're doing in the boxing gym. If you're in the weight room, you should be there primarily to get stronger. And you're not going to do that with 20% of your 1RM.

if you want to take a weekly free day and every once and a while do some strength training, there is nothing wrong with it, I would not recommend it more than once a week.

[Spartacus Sully]

This basically sums it up.

this dosnt sum it up at all, neither of you seem to be able to tell the difference between endurance training and speed training even though I spelled it out for you exactly and provided examples.



endurance training is not speed training.



20-40 reps 20-50% 1 rep max 4-6 sets = better endurance slight hypertrophy

30-50 reps 15-30% 1 rep max 3-5 sets with each movement taking about 1 second (like if your curling weights that's up 1 second down 1 second up one second down one second...) = maximal speed





20 slow tire flips with an 80 lb tire

vs

30 tire flips while moving as fast as you can with a 50 lb tire


jogging 30 mins with 10 lb weighted vest

vs

200 - 400 meter interval sprints


25 slow and controlled tire slams with a 15 lb sledge

vs

30 tire slams done as fast as possible with a 8 or 12 lb sledge

[Spartacus Sully]

I don't really see the benefit of such light weight training. I think boxers would be better off doing interval training on a heavy bag since that builds muscular endurance, cardio, and you can refine skills as well. It probably has a higher relative load than light weights as well.

both are better options than strength training.

a boxer does not need any more strength than what they get from body weight exercises and boxing specific training.

the endurance weight training, especially when focused on leg and shoulder endurance, allows for longer periods of boxing specific training.



if you could actually look at the muscle youd see a huge difference.

actually I guess you can.

the breasts on a bird control the wings.

a flightless heavy bird is going to have fast twitch mucles in it breasts as flapping its wings is comparable to 3 sets of 5 reps at 80% 1 RM

a flying light bird is going to have slow twitch muscles in its breasts as flapping its wings is comparable to 6 sets of 40 reps at 30% 1 RM

So lets look at fast twitch and slow twitch muscles in birds:

the chicken with its fast twitch muscles:



and now the duck with its slow twitch muscles:




Notice anything important? maybe color? that's because of blood flow, specifically the blood flow of red blood cells carrying oxygen. endurance training actually promotes the growth of completely new blood vessels and capillaries.


with proper endurance weight training you will notice your muscles get a little bit bigger, this is almost entirely due to increased blood flow to the muscle.

[Spartacus Sully]

and just so every one is aware:

Explosive strength is not a matter of fast or slow twitch, it is a matter of motor neuron activation.

when doing heavy lifts you activate the motor neurons of both fast and slow twitch fibers, though the fast twitch fibers having larger motor neurons tear and fail first, this promotes myofibril hypertrophy of the fast twitch muscles.

when exercises are done at a fast pace under light weights you are doing the same thing, you are working motor neuron activation of both fast and slow twitch muscles, but due to the lighter weight there is less tendancy for the muscle fibers to tear and inturn you work both fast and slow twitch fibers equally for improved motor neuron activation.

also to note when you train your motor neurons to activate against a heavy load they will have problems activating when there is no load, like punching but when you train them to activate under a light load they will activate properly whether there is no load or a heavy load.

[Facade]

You are pretty specific in your theory. Do you have any scientific evidence to back these claims up?