Weight lifting and boxing?

[Spartacus Sully]

You just explained to the guy, the exact reason he doesn't need low weight, high reps.

Everything he does in his regular boxing training, is "low weight, high reps". Which is hitting his aerobic energy. From a strength standpoint, he needs 1-5 reps, with high weight. This is a scientific fact. If he's looking to get stronger and more explosive, "low weight, high reps" will do NONE of that.

There's this common misconception that high weight for low reps "bulks" or "puts on weight". It's ridiculous. It builds strength. And if this guy is looking to build strength, it's what he needs.

If he's looking to build muscular endurance, rep away. And knock their socks off, Malignaggi.

maximal strength and explosive strength play a very small role in boxing, mainly in the clinches and when throwing short punches that dont fully extend.


VO2 max, lactic threshold, resting heart rate, technique, and maximal speed are all much more important.

as far as punching, the force of an impact only deals with the speed of the object at impact and how much it weighs.

if the maximal speed of your fist is 15 mphs it dosnt matter if you can dead lift 800 lbs, the guy thats the same size and can throw a punch at 25 mphs is going to hit you harder than you can hit him, even if he can only dead lift 100 lbs.

[Banderivets]

Lift very heavy for low reps, as in strength train. As in develop explosiveness, where the key is to move the heaviest object in the most efficient way, which usually means the fastest way.

Traditional strength training, as in big compound and oly lifts will not necessarily make you grow and put on weight, but rather make you stronger and refine your central nervous system. Look at some Olympic lifters

Its not about 100lb vs 800lb dead lifts. Its all relative. You need to train for strength.

Body building methods do not work for boxing for two reasons.

1) It makes you bigger as such it makes you slower

2) It makes you slower because body building doesn't build explosiveness and explosiveness is pretty much the whole point of strength training.

In theory you can punch harder because you carry more weight behind the punch, but usually the trade off in acceleration is too high for that extra muscle to be of any benefit.

[Spartacus Sully]

Lift very heavy for low reps, as in strength train. As in develop explosiveness, where the key is to move the heaviest object in the most efficient way, which usually means the fastest way.

Traditional strength training, as in big compound and oly lifts will not necessarily make you grow and put on weight, but rather make you stronger and refine your central nervous system. Look at some Olympic lifters

Its not about 100lb vs 800lb dead lifts. Its all relative. You need to train for strength.

Body building methods do not work for boxing for two reasons.

1) It makes you bigger as such it makes you slower

2) It makes you slower because body building doesn't build explosiveness and explosiveness is pretty much the whole point of strength training.

In theory you can punch harder because you carry more weight behind the punch, but usually the trade off in acceleration is too high for that extra muscle to be of any benefit.

you do not need to train for strength, strength will come naturally from body weight exercises, hitting the heavy bag and sparring, you train to box.

it is not relative, it is speed and mass, when you want to push some one into the wall really hard, thats strength, when you punch, thats speed and mass. as long as your are strong enough to keep your wrist from giving out in the punch, your strong to knock some one out.

[johnm is...]

maximal strength and explosive strength play a very small role in boxing, mainly in the clinches and when throwing short punches that dont fully extend.


VO2 max, lactic threshold, resting heart rate, technique, and maximal speed are all much more important.

as far as punching, the force of an impact only deals with the speed of the object at impact and how much it weighs.

if the maximal speed of your fist is 15 mphs it dosnt matter if you can dead lift 800 lbs, the guy thats the same size and can throw a punch at 25 mphs is going to hit you harder than you can hit him, even if he can only dead lift 100 lbs.

There's not a strength and conditioning coach on the planet that is going to train a fighter to deadlift, squat, bench, etc. for reps. It's always going to be in the neighborhood of 1-6 reps. Lifting weights for fighting is strength training. It's not endurance training. You get that in the boxing gym. It's not hypertrophy, because you're not a bodybuilder.

I also wouldn't consider being stronger in the clinch, and short punches a small role, either. But that's another topic for another time.

[Spartacus Sully]

There's not a strength and conditioning coach on the planet that is going to train a fighter to deadlift, squat, bench, etc. for reps. It's always going to be in the neighborhood of 1-6 reps. Lifting weights for fighting is strength training. It's not endurance training. You get that in the boxing gym. It's not hypertrophy, because you're not a bodybuilder.

I also wouldn't consider being stronger in the clinch, and short punches a small role, either. But that's another topic for another time.

strength training is a waste of time if your goal is boxing.

the heaviest person you are ever going to fight for real is still only ever going to be in your weight class. if you can handel pull ups and push ups comfortable with your own body weight, you are more than strong enough.

the importance of short punches that dont fully exend, not short punches, but short punches that dont fully extend and clinching are minor and only become less important as you gravitate away from inside fighting.

while John L Sullivan was training he followed a morning routine of 4 different shoulder exercises using 2 lbs weights consisting of 40 reps each for each exercises. its a wonder how he ever knocked out so many people.

ever do sledge hamer tire slams? full body medicine ball slams? those are the kind of exercises i would recommend. 15-30% 1 rep max, high reps, movements performed quickly. all in all a great exercise comparable to the wood chopping the greats of the past would do.

[robertojrwbbg]

John is 100% correct. I actually studied to be a nasm personal trainer before I decided to go back to school and box. High reps and short rest periods build endurance and speed. However, you do that much more effectively during actual boxing training (mitts, sparring 30 second rest rounds ect..) therefore, the biggest benefit of weight training to your boxing skills is purely strength. You do that only through hitting major compound lifts (bench, hang cleans, squats, weighted pull ups and dips, military press) 8-1 reps. Usually working to your max each time. I suggest you also spread your lifting days out and not do so much on one day so you can lessen soreness so your not suffering during your boxing days.


This is an example of how I work my schedule:

Mon - boxing
Tuesday - boxing
Wed - hang cleans (x5) military press (x5) squats (x5) Abs
Thur - bench (x5) weighted pullups (x4)/ bag work after
Fri - boxing
Saturday - bent over rows (x4) incline dumbbell bench (x4) then 5 sets of biceps and triceps
Sunday - Bag work.

(I highly suggest rest days. I just have trained every day for prolly a few yrs and fought through feeling like **** and got use to training daily and feeling good. I'm also prolly out of my mind to an extent.
)

[Spartacus Sully]

John is 100% correct. I actually studied to be a nasm personal trainer before I decided to go back to school and box. High reps and short rest periods build endurance and speed. However, you do that much more effectively during actual boxing training (mitts, sparring 30 second rest rounds ect..) therefore, the biggest benefit of weight training to your boxing skills is purely strength. You do that only through hitting major compound lifts (bench, hang cleans, squats, weighted pull ups and dips, military press) 8-1 reps. Usually working to your max each time. I suggest you also spread your lifting days out and not do so much on one day so you can lessen soreness so your not suffering during your boxing days.


This is an example of how I work my schedule:

Mon - boxing
Tuesday - boxing
Wed - hang cleans (x5) military press (x5) squats (x5) Abs
Thur - bench (x5) weighted pullups (x4)/ bag work after
Fri - boxing
Saturday - bent over rows (x4) incline dumbbell bench (x4) then 5 sets of biceps and triceps
Sunday - Bag work.

(I highly suggest rest days. I just have trained every day for prolly a few yrs and fought through feeling like **** and got use to training daily and feeling good. I'm also prolly out of my mind to an extent.
)

do you do road work on boxing days?

[johnm is...]

I'm also NASM certified. Took the MMACS, too. I'm also certified with one other strength and conditioning organization. I normally wouldn't bring it up, but I feel like it's important to note here, so that a new poster doesn't think that I'm just blowing smoke.

I also don't think that being "certified" in something proves that you know more than anyone else, but to say that strength training in boxing is a waste of time, is not only inaccurate, it's also just ridiculous. It's not the be all, end all of boxing training, but it certainly has a place.

The biggest problem with trying to train a boxing/mma fighter in strength and conditioning, is that they are, for the most part, one of the more arrogant groups of people that you'll ever meet. Try telling them something that they haven't heard of/tried before, and they'll swear you're just making it up, or that they already know so much that you can't possibly be right. As is being proven in this thread.

[#1Assassin]

weightlifting for boxing can be both beneficial or counterproductive depending on how you do it. you did mention bodybuilding though which is all wrong for boxing. you lift that way and it will hold you back tremendously.

you need to lift for strength and muscle conditioning with an emphasis on maintaining speed and agility, simply trying to bulk up and get big for the sake of being big is a terrible idea. you will just be slow, have poor stamina, poor power and poor punch resistance at the weight. you will just suck.

always think speed, mobility, agility and stamina first in boxing. thats the areas you should try to improve physically at the highest rate. strength holds lesser priority, i lift weights myself but i always keep that in mind. i focus on the more important things and simply try to max my strength in relation to those abilities.

im going to be honest with you, the easiest guys i boxed in training or competition have almost exclusively been heavily muscled guys. i boxed some shredded guys who were total monsters too but they trained to be good boxers, not to be big big and their size came more from genetics than anything.

DO NOT train for the mirror, train for the ring.

[Spartacus Sully]

The biggest problem with trying to train a boxing/mma fighter

I find the biggest problem is coaches in MMA gyms trying to turn their boxers into MMA fighters.

the way you group them together its almost as if you think one size fits all when it comes to strength training.

though its tends to be typical of people with the majority of their background in sports medicine.

Ive gone to an MMA gym, there is no better place to destroy a boxers aspirations of being something good than an MMA gym.

when you go to a Boxing gym, you are a student and are treated like one by all the people involved.

when you go to a MMA gym, you are a customer who has signed a binding contract requiring you by law to continue paying for the classes whether you go or not for at least the next year, and you are treated like that by all the people involved.

The MMA gym I went to actually went as far as to commit credit card fraud so to continue charging me after the credit information I provided had expired by using an expiration date different than the one I supplied to them.

can you imagine that? its march 2010 your cards expired, your bank sends you a replacement card, the same account number, march 2011 expiration date. you check your bank account and find that the MMA gym is still charging you even through the credit information you provided them expired last month?????

This was a Renzo Gracie MMA Gym.

the average MMA gym will provide a person with only Boxing classes at about 50$s a month, if you decide to go with the unlimited class package at signup offering access to all classes, both mma and Boxing, you will pay around 75$s a month. But if you sign up for the boxing classes and want to upgrade to the unlimited classes later on it will cost you around 100$s a month.

a mma gym will make any where from 25-50$ more each month recruiting some one in mma than some one just interested in boxing.

I wouldn't be surprise if MMA Coaches specifically deceive boxers by exaggerating the importance of strength training to get them into MMA rather than boxing.