What Canelo has to do to beat Mayweather

[mconstantine]

1. Actually he did do what you suggested. At least in the general boxing sense. He was lured into thinking he could box and counter punch with Mayweather and like I have said over and over, you cannot play Mayweathers game.

Dude, no he did not. I was VERY specific in regards to how I said Canelo should counter. I said he should counter AT THE SAME TIME Mayweather threw his pot shots He didn't do that. He countered but AFTER catching the punch and like always, Mayweather was already gone. I specifically said in the video that doesn't work.

I also did not say Canelo should try to outbox him...this is something a bigger guy should do to a smaller guy without significant power even if they are pressuring them.

[New England]

Dude, no he did not. I was VERY specific in regards to how I said Canelo should counter. I said he should counter AT THE SAME TIME Mayweather threw his pot shots He didn't do that. He countered but AFTER catching the punch and like always, Mayweather was already gone. I specifically said in the video that doesn't work.

I also did not say Canelo should try to outbox him...this is something a bigger guy should do to a smaller guy without significant power even if they are pressuring them.

so you want him to counterpunch with floyd mayweather?


you gotta face it, my man. you couldn't give alvarez a gameplan to beat floyd mayweaher. nobody on earth could. it's not a huge deal.


wanna beat floyd mayweather? grab a time machind and get tommy hearns to back him up with a jab and drop the right had from halfway across the ring.

[mconstantine]

so you want him to counterpunch with floyd mayweather?


you gotta face it, my man. you couldn't give alvarez a gameplan to beat floyd mayweaher. nobody on earth could. it's not a huge deal.


wanna beat floyd mayweather? grab a time machind and get tommy hearns to back him up with a jab and drop the right had from halfway across the ring.

Go back and reread my previous posts. Don't want to repeat myself...everyone can be timed and everyone is vulnerable when they're IN THE ACT of punching...even Floyd. In fact, the times he's been touched have all been while he was in the act of punching.

[New England]

Go back and reread my previous posts. Don't want to repeat myself...everyone can be timed and everyone is vulnerable when they're IN THE ACT of punching...even Floyd. In fact, the times he's been touched have all been while he was in the act of punching.

anybody? by anybody? let me get this straight, you still think alvarez could win under your tutilage after watching the fight?


i have gotten the gist of your posts man. i am not going to go back and reread them. you want canelo alvarez to do something he cannot. floyd mayweather's upperbody movement and parrying speed is super human. his reflexes don't even look like they belong on a man. he's like an animal with his reflexes. it's all reactions. there's nothing that alvarez could do with that. i hate to break it to you, but there's nothing you can tell canelo alvarez that would win him the fight. you'd tell him that mayweather is vulnerable while he's punching and he'd say "duh, dude. you think i'm not trying to hit him when his hands aren't at home?"

cmon, man.


his best bet was to use his size and maneuver mayweather to the ropes. the ropes are the best way to limit floyd mayweather. at 36 he finds himself there every once in a while. i ordered the fight to get to watch it again and got a much better look a thte work alvarez was able to do when he had floyd on the ropes. it wasn't much, but it was literally the only time he could put his gloves on him without getting countered with clean shots. they didn't have the wrong gameplan. they wanted to maneuver floyd to the ropes and wear him down by putting gloves on him any way they could. that's a realistic gameplan, within canelo's skillset. they couldnt' adjust because alvarez didn't have what it took. it's that simple.


you want alvarez to win the fight by countering floyd mayweather? consistently enough to win him the rounds, or just looking for a big punch? either way, it was not happening. what alvarez did you watch that made you think he could do that? switch him out with somebody who can actually pull it off. roberto duran when he fought leonard @ 147 might have a shot of playing a counterpunching roll and throwing with mayweather. even he would probably lose 8 rounds.



instead of looking at some tape of mayweather, why don't you go back and look at some tape of canelo alvarez, so you can get an idea of what he's actually capable of. go back and look at the mayweather fight and tell me if you think a slow footed guy like alvarez can time the best boxer on the planet. he's not zab judah, shane mosley, or chop chop corley.

[mconstantine]

anybody? by anybody? let me get this straight, you still think alvarez could win under your tutilage after watching the fight?

Didn't read after this because you obviously still are straw manning my argument...

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

anybody? by anybody? let me get this straight, you still think alvarez could win under your tutilage after watching the fight?


i have gotten the gist of your posts man. i am not going to go back and reread them. you want canelo alvarez to do something he cannot. floyd mayweather's upperbody movement and parrying speed is super human. his reflexes don't even look like they belong on a man. he's like an animal with his reflexes. it's all reactions. there's nothing that alvarez could do with that. i hate to break it to you, but there's nothing you can tell canelo alvarez that would win him the fight. you'd tell him that mayweather is vulnerable while he's punching and he'd say "duh, dude. you think i'm not trying to hit him when his hands aren't at home?"

cmon, man.


his best bet was to use his size and maneuver mayweather to the ropes. the ropes are the best way to limit floyd mayweather. at 36 he finds himself there every once in a while. i ordered the fight to get to watch it again and got a much better look a thte work alvarez was able to do when he had floyd on the ropes. it wasn't much, but it was literally the only time he could put his gloves on him without getting countered with clean shots. they didn't have the wrong gameplan. they wanted to maneuver floyd to the ropes and wear him down by putting gloves on him any way they could. that's a realistic gameplan, within canelo's skillset. they couldnt' adjust because alvarez didn't have what it took. it's that simple.


you want alvarez to win the fight by countering floyd mayweather? consistently enough to win him the rounds, or just looking for a big punch? either way, it was not happening. what alvarez did you watch that made you think he could do that? switch him out with somebody who can actually pull it off. roberto duran when he fought leonard @ 147 might have a shot of playing a counterpunching roll and throwing with mayweather. even he would probably lose 8 rounds.



instead of looking at some tape of mayweather, why don't you go back and look at some tape of canelo alvarez, so you can get an idea of what he's actually capable of. go back and look at the mayweather fight and tell me if you think a slow footed guy like alvarez can time the best boxer on the planet. he's not zab judah, shane mosley, or chop chop corley.

What I been saying for months now......

Didn't read after this because you obviously still are straw manning my argument...

Nobody is strawmaning your argument. You fail to understand that your game plan sounds great, but it's much more difficult and IMO, IMPOSSIBLE to execute against Mayweather.

You are asking Canelo to PUNCH WITH Mayweather, well that sounds fantastic when you aren't getting a jab in the mouth anytime you step within reach of him. Or are watching for the fastest right hand in the history of boxing.

The formula for beating Mayweather was laid out by Castillo. You need to pressure, pressure, pressure and have the endurance to punch for 12 rounds.

There's a reason he avoided a prime 147 lb Margarito, bad style match up for Floyd and he knew it. Not saying Marg would have won, but Floyd took 4 million less to fight Baldomir for that very reason.

Canelo wasn't going to do that, he wanted to implore some strategy thinking he can box, counter punch, punch with Mayweather and you are not going to do that.

Sometimes you guys turn boxing into rocket science, when in reality it's very simple. Every single pro boxer, pro boxing trainer said the same thing, Canelo needs to move forward, throw a ton of punches and out muscle Mayweather.

The only way to take Mayweather out of his game plan is to turn it into a brawl. Hatton had the right formula but wasn't big enough. Castillo beat him with that formula in their first fight.

There's very few guys in the HISTORY of the sport that can counter and box with Mayweather, DLH was one of them but we don't have a DLH in the sport today.

[mconstantine]

What I been saying for months now......



Nobody is strawmaning your argument. You fail to understand that your game plan sounds great, but it's much more difficult and IMO, IMPOSSIBLE to execute against Mayweather.

You are asking Canelo to PUNCH WITH Mayweather, well that sounds fantastic when you aren't getting a jab in the mouth anytime you step within reach of him. Or are watching for the fastest right hand in the history of boxing.

The formula for beating Mayweather was laid out by Castillo. You need to pressure, pressure, pressure and have the endurance to punch for 12 rounds.

There's a reason he avoided a prime 147 lb Margarito, bad style match up for Floyd and he knew it. Not saying Marg would have won, but Floyd took 4 million less to fight Baldomir for that very reason.

Canelo wasn't going to do that, he wanted to implore some strategy thinking he can box, counter punch, punch with Mayweather and you are not going to do that.

Sometimes you guys turn boxing into rocket science, when in reality it's very simple. Every single pro boxer, pro boxing trainer said the same thing, Canelo needs to move forward, throw a ton of punches and out muscle Mayweather.

The only way to take Mayweather out of his game plan is to turn it into a brawl. Hatton had the right formula but wasn't big enough. Castillo beat him with that formula in their first fight.

There's very few guys in the HISTORY of the sport that can counter and box with Mayweather, DLH was one of them but we don't have a DLH in the sport today.

This argument boils down to which strategy you think would have been the most executable for Canelo to win.

Option #1: Try and catch him in an exchange by punching WITH his pot shots...the same way Corley/Mosley/Judah caught him. This option was banking on Canelo ability to take Mayweather's punches which he demonstrated he could. Mayweather never came close to hurting Canelo. It also banked on his ability to counter punch which Canelo can. Even Mayweather said he was a good counter puncher.

Option #2: Pressure/outwork Mayweather for 12 rounds. This option was banking on Canelo's stamina WHICH WE HAVE SEEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN IS NOT THERE FOR THIS TYPE OF FIGHT!

The option you guys were giving Canelo he's shown numerous times is not realistic for him. He's not Castillo. But Canelo CAN counter punch and he CAN take Mayweather's shots. I still say my Option was the most realistic strategy FOR CANELO! For a fighter with stamina, I would have agreed with you.

BTW...my strategy was NEVER for Canelo to try and outbox him. Option #1 is basically conceding the fact that you're going to take punches with the hopes of knocking Mayweather out. Canelo was never going to outwork or outbox Mayweather so his only real option was to KO him and Option #1 remains the best way to do that...again...Mosely/Corley/Judah all showed that since they are the ONLY people to ever hurt Mayweather and they ALL did it by doing Option #1.

Both options were a long shot for Canelo...but Option #2 was nearly impossible for Canelo.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

This argument boils down to which strategy you think would have been the most executable for Canelo to win.

Option #1: Try and catch him in an exchange by punching WITH his pot shots...the same way Corley/Mosley/Judah caught him. This option was banking on Canelo ability to take Mayweather's punches which he demonstrated he could. Mayweather never came close to hurting Canelo. It also banked on his ability to counter punch which Canelo can. Even Mayweather said he was a good counter puncher.

Option #2: Pressure/outwork Mayweather for 12 rounds. This option was banking on Canelo's stamina WHICH WE HAVE SEEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN IS NOT THERE FOR THIS TYPE OF FIGHT!

The option you guys were giving Canelo he's shown numerous times is not realistic for him. He's not Castillo. But Canelo CAN counter punch and he CAN take Mayweather's shots. I still say my Option was the most realistic strategy FOR CANELO! For a fighter with stamina, I would have agreed with you.

BTW...my strategy was NEVER for Canelo to try and outbox him. Option #1 is basically conceding the fact that you're going to take punches with the hopes of knocking Mayweather out. Canelo was never going to outwork or outbox Mayweather so his only real option was to KO him and Option #1 remains the best way to do that...again...Mosely/Corley/Judah all showed that since they are the ONLY people to ever hurt Mayweather and they ALL did it by doing Option #1.

Both options were a long shot for Canelo...but Option #2 was nearly impossible for Canelo.

I agree with you 100% and we are on the same page as far as why Canelo was not going to win this fight but let me add this...

Mayweather is NOT the same fighter he was with Chop Chop or even Judah. I honestly think he's smarter now and fights more defensive than he ever did.

As far as Mosley, he got caught because he was CARELESS, he paid for it but came back, adjusted and DOMINATED the fight for 10 rounds.

Giving the reasons you did, is why I think Canelo's trainers had the PERFECT game plan. They know Canelo can't pressure for 12 rounds, so they tried to box and counter with Mayweather for the first rounds. They were close rounds but Mayweather was winning most of them.

So after about the 6th, they tried to come forward and do what I said needed to be done from the get go and he couldn't sustain that pace.

So in the end, it was a bad style match up for Canelo as it is for most fighters that get in the ring with Mayweather.

Saying that, I think Canelo fought great. He really showed he can box with the greatest boxer in the world. Guerrero and Ortiz were destroyed by Mayweather. Canelo was hit with some great shots but all in all, IMO did way better and like you said, never was hurt by him.

I'm not dissing your break down man, I'm just telling you as a former fighter and trainer, it's easier said than done and you have to understand the limitations of your fighter.

Guys that would give Floyd serious problems in the past are guys like Duran, Chavez Sr. Salvador Sanchez because of their relentless style.

[SplitSecond]

This argument boils down to which strategy you think would have been the most executable for Canelo to win.

Option #1: Try and catch him in an exchange by punching WITH his pot shots...the same way Corley/Mosley/Judah caught him. This option was banking on Canelo ability to take Mayweather's punches which he demonstrated he could. Mayweather never came close to hurting Canelo. It also banked on his ability to counter punch which Canelo can. Even Mayweather said he was a good counter puncher.

Option #2: Pressure/outwork Mayweather for 12 rounds. This option was banking on Canelo's stamina WHICH WE HAVE SEEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN IS NOT THERE FOR THIS TYPE OF FIGHT!

The option you guys were giving Canelo he's shown numerous times is not realistic for him. He's not Castillo. But Canelo CAN counter punch and he CAN take Mayweather's shots. I still say my Option was the most realistic strategy FOR CANELO! For a fighter with stamina, I would have agreed with you.

BTW...my strategy was NEVER for Canelo to try and outbox him. Option #1 is basically conceding the fact that you're going to take punches with the hopes of knocking Mayweather out. Canelo was never going to outwork or outbox Mayweather so his only real option was to KO him and Option #1 remains the best way to do that...again...Mosely/Corley/Judah all showed that since they are the ONLY people to ever hurt Mayweather and they ALL did it by doing Option #1.

Both options were a long shot for Canelo...but Option #2 was nearly impossible for Canelo.

the strategy you'd give alvarez is to bank on a ko?
and worse yet the strategy you'd give him is to stand there taking punches waiting for that perfect opportunity?(which he likely wouldn't get, and even if he lands one punch, who's to say it'd ko floyd?)

floyd is smart as ***, and he can go rounds without throwing much of anything, and with those blink speed potshots that he doesn't even put all of his weight behind so can pull off a defensive manueaver almost in the same instance, it's not realistic man, atleast not for alvarez
but it did look to me this is exactly what alvarez was trying though, but floyd is a speedy as *** potshotter, vs alvarez who is a much, much slower fighter

trying to time mayweather is alot more unrealistic for saul alvarez than utilizing his 15lbs and tremendous strenght advantage

BTW mosley's punch was a lead, he jabbed to floyds body and squared floyd up with it and shot a fast as sht right hand
judah when he hurt floyd was with a jab jab(closed the distance), left cross
corley got plenty of punches in, because floyd went in there to brawl with him, he wasn't potshotting, that fight actually has one of the most memorable mayweather combos

[mconstantine]

I agree with you 100% and we are on the same page as far as why Canelo was not going to win this fight but let me add this...

Mayweather is NOT the same fighter he was with Chop Chop or even Judah. I honestly think he's smarter now and fights more defensive than he ever did.

As far as Mosley, he got caught because he was CARELESS, he paid for it but came back, adjusted and DOMINATED the fight for 10 rounds.

Giving the reasons you did, is why I think Canelo's trainers had the PERFECT game plan. They know Canelo can't pressure for 12 rounds, so they tried to box and counter with Mayweather for the first rounds. They were close rounds but Mayweather was winning most of them.

So after about the 6th, they tried to come forward and do what I said needed to be done from the get go and he couldn't sustain that pace.

So in the end, it was a bad style match up for Canelo as it is for most fighters that get in the ring with Mayweather.

Saying that, I think Canelo fought great. He really showed he can box with the greatest boxer in the world. Guerrero and Ortiz were destroyed by Mayweather. Canelo was hit with some great shots but all in all, IMO did way better and like you said, never was hurt by him.

I'm not dissing your break down man, I'm just telling you as a former fighter and trainer, it's easier said than done and you have to understand the limitations of your fighter.

Guys that would give Floyd serious problems in the past are guys like Duran, Chavez Sr. Salvador Sanchez because of their relentless style.

Gotcha...and I agree with everything you said. I actually think Canelo did about all he could do in the fight as well. When the boxing didn't work, he tried to pressure. The other problem though was Mayweather began to stand his ground and force Canelo back in the middle rounds. Canelo is not nearly as comfortable actually fighting backwards.

I also agree those guys who you named probably have the best chance of beating Floyd. I was never arguing that constant, insane amounts of pressure is the best way to beat Floyd...I was just looking at a major limitation in Canelo (his stamina) taking that option away from him. Mares fight against Moreno is the blueprint on how to beat a boxer like Floyd. Although you'd need a bit of a chin along with that stamina because Mayweather CAN crack when he has to.

Actually, I think Ortiz did better against Mayweather than Canelo though. I still wish that fight had continued.