What Canelo has to do to beat Mayweather

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

get close enough to land one on floyd's chin, ideally on the ropes. if he can't he'll lose on points. it's really that simple. canelo is going to have to walk through a ton of punishment to do it. i don't think he's that type of mexican fighter. he's more of a technician. he tries to box, and mix in power shots and combinations. he'll be lost when he's reduced to having to fight in a purely mexican style. he doesn't have the skills to beat floyd mayweather in a thinking man's fight. his feet aren't fast enough to be able to be doing anything other than chasing floyd around the ring at all of the wrong distances and angles. if he wants to win he'll have to impose his size by walking through floyd's stuff and landing his own. the only way he wins is if he's simply "too big."

alvarez is by nature a very patient fighter. if you're patient with floyd mayweather you'll be listening to the scorecards being read before you're ready to make your move.

unless mayweather gets old overnight i expect him to weather a couple of rocky spots early in the fight, adjust, slow canelo's pace even further than normal (all floyd opponents throw markedly fewer punches they normally would,) and land the cleaner shots down the stretch.

i don't even think floyd is going to try and pot shot / tie canelo up. alvarez is way too strong for that. mayweather will have long enough arms and the handspeed to score enough from the outside, and all the tools and footspeed he needs to keep canelo there.

+100000000000

Now this is understanding the game. I agree 100%.

This is why I always said that Julio Cesar Chavez Sr and Roberto Duran are styles that would really cause Floyd problems.

You are very right about Canelo's patience. In every other fight that helps him, but not so much in this one.

[PAC-BOY]

+100000000000

Now this is understanding the game. I agree 100%.

This is why I always said that Julio Cesar Chavez Sr and Roberto Duran are styles that would really cause Floyd problems.

You are very right about Canelo's patience. In every other fight that helps him, but not so much in this one.

Im not to sure of that. It very well may be what wins it for him. Floyd likes people to be the aggressor. He also likes to predict movement. If canelo can throw combos and get out with out letting Floyd look good...his Patience could very well be his key in this fight.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Im not to sure of that. It very well may be what wins it for him. Floyd likes people to be the aggressor. He also likes to predict movement. If canelo can throw combos and get out with out letting Floyd look good...his Patience could very well be his key in this fight.

That's assuming that he can play that cat and mouse game with Floyd. I just think new England is right in saying that if he does that, the rounds will go by and the next thing you know the fight is over and you lost by decision.

Maybe Canelo can surprise me, I hope so. My heart is with Canelo, my money says Floyd all day.

[mconstantine]

[QUOTE=Cuauhtémoc1520;13694410]

I get what you are saying, I just don't think Canelo has that in his bag of tricks and I don't know how effective that will really be. Mayweathers biggest strength is his ability to adapt almost immediately.

I am not saying Canelo can do these things. It would take flawless execution and him training SPECIFICALLY to do these things. I understand the challenge in all of that which is why I say he still loses. I would also say that most guys he's fought tend to fight in a predictable rhythm (even Floyd has said that). The guys who haven't, he's has more issues with.


[QUOTE=Cuauhtémoc1520;13694410]

Timing does beat speed and who has better timing? Mayweather or Canelo? There's the answer to your question...hahaha You are asking Canelo to play Mayweathers game, not a smart idea.

Again, I am talking about when Mayweather pot shots, ONLY! The fact that Mayweather is superior at timing doesn't matter when he initiates the exchange. Timing a guy in terms of countering is only relevant when he's punching first. EVERY fighter...even Mayweather is vulnerable when they're in the act of punching. Like I said, refer to Round 4 against Corley and Round 2 against Mosley. Both times, Mayweather got hurt because they punched WITH him.


[QUOTE=Cuauhtémoc1520;13694410]

Well if you are right and Canelo can't do this, the fight is over. Canelo cannot do what Mayweather does, not in a million years. I love Canelo, am rooting for him but you do not go into this trying to beat Mayweather in his own game, that would be suicide. You try and take away the strengths of your opponent, not beat him at his game.

Not saying he has to do what Mayweather does or even play his game. But he needs to be able to work within Mayweather's game in certain pockets...PARTICULARLY in terms of punching with him during pot shots.


[QUOTE=Cuauhtémoc1520;13694410]

Ortiz would disagree with you. After the fight Ortiz admitted that Mayweather hit HARD. Look at his left eye from those right hand counters, it was almost closed shut. I think Mayweather hits very hard, and hits you when you don't expect it. I think Canelo will find out that Mayweathers punches just don't sting, but they hurt.

Regardless to what Ortiz said, he was walking THROUGH Mayweather's shots. The main thing that was frustrating Ortiz was Mayweather forcing him back. You could see moments where Ortiz would FORCE himself to move forward very aggressively and he was landing on Mayweather in pockets even in that last exchange right before the head butt. Ultimately, it wasn't Mayweather's hard shots that broke Ortiz down mentally...it was his own ******ity.



[QUOTE=Cuauhtémoc1520;13694410]

Coming forward in a fight takes a hell of a lot more stamina than going backwards. Ask anyone who has ever fought and they will tell you the same. I was a pressure fighter, and I needed to be in tip top shape.

Mayweather doesn't have to do anything special to wear Canelo down, he WANTS Canelo to come forward, that's what counter puncher do.

I also don't think he will press forward unless Canelo is hurt, just like he did vs Guerrero. For most of the fight he was going backwards until he hurt Guerrero in the 10th I believe it was. Coming forward against a bigger stronger fighter puts you in more harms way, Mayweather doesn't take chances.

I've boxed before and I know first hand that moving forward is exhausting. I absolutely hate it. Ultimately, I think you're right here and he probably won't fight that fight (I said I thought he'd fight Canelo like he did Guerrero in the video). But there is SOME logic in this strategy. Ortiz was a big puncher as well. He had knocked down every guy he'd ever fought before Mayweather. He was also stronger than Mayweather. Mayweather STILL walked him down. Why? Because if a guy is simply not comfortable fighting backwards, that takes away many of his strengths. Ortiz was simply not effective moving backwards. I don't think Canelo is either. But you're probably right, with Floyd focusing so much on not taking damage, I doubt this would be his lead strategy...but I could see it being effective...especially if Mayweather hits as hard as you seem to believe he does. If Canelo manages to pressure Mayweather enough to force exchanges (HUGE if), the best adjustment Floyd could make then would be to try and force Canelo back, then turn him.


[QUOTE=Cuauhtémoc1520;13694410]

I like your opinion, and think you make some good points but I think like most fans that are not involved with boxing as trainers or fighters, you are over complicating things. Mayweather is going to do what he does, Canelo needs to take him out of that rhythm like you said, but it's going to happen not with off rhythm punches, but by pressuring him, bullying him and mauling him inside as the bigger stronger man.

I don't think this one is too complicated to be honest. I have talked to a lot of pro trainers are bout this, and we are all basically on the same page. DLH even hinted the same thing about "Intelligent pressure" and that's what Canelo needs to do. If he decides to box, play the timing game, or stand in the middle of the ring for too long....we are looking at a Mayweather UD.

I am not recommending Canelo attempt to outbox Mayweather. I am recommending him 1. Jab a lot 2. Punch with his pot shots and 3. Be unpredictable/slightly awkward. He can do ALL of those things while pressuring Mayweather. I am not disagreeing with you that he should lay back. Again, Canelo is most comfortable moving forward. These are just supplements and tweaks to his current style. It's not complicated at all. And if the formula to beat Mayweather was simple, somebody would have already done it. You say these 3 tweaks are out of Canelo's ability. I strongly disagree if he actually trains to do them. I think they're more realistic than Canelo being able to apply the pressure he needs for 12 rounds to simply outwork Mayweather.

[mconstantine]

You guys are saying the best strategy to beat Floyd is to simply walk through a ton of punishment to land your shots...lol. The people whom have tried that have been KNOCKED THE **** OUT (Hatton) or BEAT UP (Augustus).

Again, I agree that pressure is the key....but with INTELLIGENCE...

You guys just said that Floyd should use his reach and pick Canelo off as he comes forward, and Canelo should just take those shots to get in? Then in the same breath says he has slow feet (which he does)? That makes no sense. By the time Floyd lands his shot on the outside, and Canelo rushes in, Floyd will escape. His feet are too quick. If Canelo is going to take shots on the way in, he may as well take it while delivering his own at the same time.

When is the last time you've seen someone hurt Floyd using your strategy? Again, I can point to SEVERAL instances where someone has legitimately HURT Mayweather doing exactly what i'm saying.

[mconstantine]

I guess I need video evidence.

Can we all agree that Canelo would likely never win a decision and he'll have to catch Mayweather? OK...

Look at this video...notice the first time Mosley hurt Mayweather. What did he do? He feinted...TWICE...then threw a JAB to the body, then IMMEDIATELY came up top with a right hand. That offense was awkward and unpredictable and it made Mayweather THINK (kept him off balance).

Look at the 2nd time he hurt him....what was Mayweather doing? He was in the act of throwing a left hook! Mosley didn't even try to defend against that left hook, he simply throw a looping right AT THE SAME TIME Mayweather was punching and caught him.

Go a little further to the Judah fight at 1:00. What did Judah do to hurt Mayweather? He threw a right hook AT THE SAME TIME Mayweather threw a right to the body. (That should have been a knockdown by the way).




Need more evidence? Let's look at the Corley fight.

Mayweather was throwing one of his beautiful right hands. But instead of catching/blocking/dodging THEN punching...what did Corley do? He threw a right hook AT THE SAME TIME Mayweather was punching.



If you're not going to outbox him (no one in the game can), and if you can't outwork him or pressure him to a victory (Canelo don't have the stamina), his best chance in my opinion is to do the things that have ONLY shown to truly be effective at catching/hurting Mayweather which will put you in a position to knock him out.

Is it easy? Of course not...we're talking about his best option...not the easy option.

[New England]

+100000000000

Now this is understanding the game. I agree 100%.

This is why I always said that Julio Cesar Chavez Sr and Roberto Duran are styles that would really cause Floyd problems.

You are very right about Canelo's patience. In every other fight that helps him, but not so much in this one.

i'm expecting floyd to dust off the jab, then dust off the right hand counter when alvarez starts to try and paw the mayweather jab away. sounds basic, but it will work.

i'm hoping alvarez catches up to him and lands, as i'm gonna be there and it's gonna be buckwild if canelo wins. i'll put a small bet on mayweather to win on points.

[New England]

You guys are saying the best strategy to beat Floyd is to simply walk through a ton of punishment to land your shots...lol. The people whom have tried that have been KNOCKED THE **** OUT (Hatton) or BEAT UP (Augustus).

Again, I agree that pressure is the key....but with INTELLIGENCE...

You guys just said that Floyd should use his reach and pick Canelo off as he comes forward, and Canelo should just take those shots to get in? Then in the same breath says he has slow feet (which he does)? That makes no sense. By the time Floyd lands his shot on the outside, and Canelo rushes in, Floyd will escape. His feet are too quick. If Canelo is going to take shots on the way in, he may as well take it while delivering his own at the same time.

When is the last time you've seen someone hurt Floyd using your strategy? Again, I can point to SEVERAL instances where someone has legitimately HURT Mayweather doing exactly what i'm saying.

you're not being at all realistic. the deciding factor for alvarez will only be the size. if he wins it's because he's bigger.

bigger men have been walking through punishment to beat smaller men for a very long time. if it's literally your only chance, you go for it. you don't have to be a complete moron and blocking punches with your chin. intelligently pressure, the way any pressure fighter who catches up to a great boxer must.

it's a given that you've got to move your head when you move forward, dude.



he needs to impose his size. that's his only chance to win. he's obviously not going to walk in there blocking punches with his face, but he's going to need to walk through punches and land his own, the way scores have fighters have done in the past to be successful against better boxers.


floyd mayweather has been badly hurt twice in his career. it sounds like you're overstating the damage boxers have done to him.

chop chop corely, an american boxer and a southpaw, and shane mosley, a fighter with a great chin and power, who fought on his toes, were the guys to hurt him. both were relatively slick guys with fast hands and good feet.

[New England]

canelo alvarez is going to try and box with mayweather jr., and he's going to lose nine or ten rounds.

[mconstantine]

floyd mayweather has been badly hurt twice in his career. it sounds like you're overstating the damage boxers have done to him.

chop chop corely, an american boxer and a southpaw, and shane mosley, a fighter with a great chin and power, who fought on his toes, were the guys to hurt him. both were relatively slick guys with fast hands and good feet.

At the end of the day, both of those guys hurt him doing what I suggested...