Reactive Mitts with a student (Showing Off)

[frosty-g]

Perhaps each individuals are looking at this from a different perspective. Or perhaps focus on different benefits. I personally don't believe it's the only answer to mitts work, or how it should be done. But hey!! How can you tell Roger Mayweather he's wrong when Mayweather Jr is an unbeaten world champ..hahaha!! I know one thing for sure, it's feels great for my hand because it's less impact. Being an older trainer, it's great for my hands, elbows and joints because it's less painful during and after training..lol!

at the end of the day, whatever works for an individual is what should be done.
this type of mitt training for the vast majority is not staple training material, at all.
just like putting a skinny 18 year old on a pro-powerlifter's training plan (a lighter version of course) would be no good, or putting a pro-powerlifter on another guy's plan may be no good - blindly copying what the guys at the top do is a very bad idea unless you understand it inside and out (which isn't blindly) and know whether it is appropriate to be applied
i'm not making a point against you, just in general

it's the same **** as every kid wanting to do "the mayweather defence" - yeah sure its great, but not for the vast majority of boxers.


if you need to do different training because of injuries, then its great if you find something that fits the bill and enables you to keep training effectively

i disagree though about having to use it as a compromise as a coach due to the same reasons - get someone else to do the padwork and supervise if you need to, it's your injuries and problems, not the boxers'
-again a general point and not getting at you, i know you said you had other reasons for this

[frosty-g]

[QUOTE=Live2box;12861514]

One thing we should all agree on that what works for others does not necessary works for everyone else.

can't possibly disagree with that but i would like to point out that it's only truely valid in this case IF the "what works" bit WORKS, if it doesn't then it still remains a bit of a waste of time.
despite this, an interesting thing emanuel steward said about cotto was that he just loves to bloody run, too much, but it was what kept cotto happy so he just let him get on with it regardless - so a case of something not really directly "working", but at least it kept the fighter in the right mood and in the frame of mind to get on with everything else, so it was worth keeping it that way. i think this type of padwork falls into this category for the most part. but if it detracts more that it helps then it needs scrapping.
the problem with padwork is that it is a much more specific form of training - if you're properly fit you're fit and i don't care really how you got there as long as it doesn't negatively affect the rest of your training, but i really do care about the quality and nature of the more specific stuff because that's mostly what makes you a boxer and not a triathlete/whatever

[Live2box]

that's true for sure - it is a little problematic though, when you get something that is based upon experience and intuition (plus no doubt some words of wisdom from others) that can be great, and for some guys who are excellent in this (Angelo Dundee for example) they might not benefit from a deeper understanding of the principles.

HOWEVER, i don't know of many trainers of that calibre, and certainly not of many at all that couldn't do with a few ideas being straightened out or added to.

i CAN think of a hell of a lot of trainers that desperately DO need this additional input, and at the end of the day, all the best guys i ever heard speak (dundee, steward, ingle, various cubans, back in the day trainers i've read about etc etc) ALL state that they are learning every day - so picking up some new information, thinking it through and then maybe or maybe not implementing those ideas is a fact of life for a good trainer.

one of the good things about an academic approach (there are plenty of negatives also) is the fact of having to analyse the ideas and be able to express them in your own way, showing a deeper understanding. its similar to how a lot of top fighters make poor coaches - they know but they can't articulate.

not suggesting that anyone should become a psychologist or whatever, but kinda coming full circle to what you said about how having an understanding of a few basic principles - it can't hurt when sorting out the chaff when deciding on new methods, or making existing methods work better

Frosty-G
that's true for sure - it is a little problematic though, when you get something that is based upon experience and intuition (plus no doubt some words of wisdom from others) that can be great, and for some guys who are excellent in this (Angelo Dundee for example) they might not benefit from a deeper understanding of the principles.

HOWEVER, i don't know of many trainers of that calibre, and certainly not of many at all that couldn't do with a few ideas being straightened out or added to.


I'm not saying these guys know everything but I think if you ask them a direct question on the issue, than give them a little time to answer. After that, the questionaire should zip up and listen intently with an open mind. They will explain it in their own way or words. Their understanding of the principle might not be the same as yours (in words) but they still have deeper understanding. You'll find most of these guys will make thing as simple as possible for their boxers to understand. But it doesn't mean they don't understand it deeply. Some of course talk better than others at the media (using big words etc) because of years of exposing to it. Some have been working on their media skills. Some still don't feel comfortable at the media but relax and calm under pressure when working at the corner. As long as you don't attempt to ask question you think you already know the answer but just to test their intelligent. This will be the ultimate disrespectful.

[Live2box]

[QUOTE=frosty-g;12861527]

can't possibly disagree with that but i would like to point out that it's only truely valid in this case IF the "what works" bit WORKS, if it doesn't then it still remains a bit of a waste of time.
despite this, an interesting thing emanuel steward said about cotto was that he just loves to bloody run, too much, but it was what kept cotto happy so he just let him get on with it regardless - so a case of something not really directly "working", but at least it kept the fighter in the right mood and in the frame of mind to get on with everything else, so it was worth keeping it that way. i think this type of padwork falls into this category for the most part. but if it detracts more that it helps then it needs scrapping.
the problem with padwork is that it is a much more specific form of training - if you're properly fit you're fit and i don't care really how you got there as long as it doesn't negatively affect the rest of your training, but i really do care about the quality and nature of the more specific stuff because that's mostly what makes you a boxer and not a triathlete/whatever

Hahaha! Yep I agree. I rest my case.

[Live2box]

at the end of the day, whatever works for an individual is what should be done.
this type of mitt training for the vast majority is not staple training material, at all.
just like putting a skinny 18 year old on a pro-powerlifter's training plan (a lighter version of course) would be no good, or putting a pro-powerlifter on another guy's plan may be no good - blindly copying what the guys at the top do is a very bad idea unless you understand it inside and out (which isn't blindly) and know whether it is appropriate to be applied
i'm not making a point against you, just in general

it's the same **** as every kid wanting to do "the mayweather defence" - yeah sure its great, but not for the vast majority of boxers.


if you need to do different training because of injuries, then its great if you find something that fits the bill and enables you to keep training effectively

i disagree though about having to use it as a compromise as a coach due to the same reasons - get someone else to do the padwork and supervise if you need to, it's your injuries and problems, not the boxers'
-again a general point and not getting at you, i know you said you had other reasons for this

I think we can go on and on with this topic without finish because if we look hard enough we will find something wrong in everyone. I don't use this type mitt work as a supplement, just because Mayweather and his camp are doing it. In fact, I do something similar but not the same. I've been doing my version of mitt work for over 20 years. Even before the utube exist. lol! A lot of people here will probably take a shot at me for what I'm about to say, but I don't even get my boxers to use swivel speed balls. Eventhough all or most great champions in history used em. Simply because I don't think it's that productive compare to other training they can do instead. If I have to choose the swivel speed ball and the floor to ceiling, I would choose the floor to ceiling. As you can see I don't follow what everyone else are doing just for the sake of it, honestly. Hopefully I don't come across arrogant for saying it. Yes swivel speed ball has it's benefit, but I believe my boxers will be more beneficial doing other form of training in place of the speed ball given the time we spend at the gym. And yes, I used speed ball too when I was young. If my grandpa still alive today, he would surely told me off or call me names for not using speed balls..but hey! We do things we believe more productive for our boxers. Right? And yes with careful thought of course. lol!

[deejd]

make as many responses as you please, you still haven't come close to making a point - all you're doing is making me believe more and more that you don't have one

It's a simple question, did you watch any of those fights? If you haven't, then I can't discuss this anymore with you and it's more apparent as to why your viewpoint is that way that it is.

[deejd]

I have watched this one - What is your point mate?

Broner is technically sound, throws with power when he trains, and sticks to basic combinations. He mimics Mayweather's style but doesn't do the same type of mitt work, yet he struggled [and some believe, lost] against PDL who isn't nearly as technically sound and proficient.

Go watch the others. I take it you're from the UK as well, or some place outside of the states, so it's obvious why you're opposed to styles of mitt work that don't always use "1-2-3-4" with all the power in the world behind it.

[Live2box]

Broner is technically sound, throws with power when he trains, and sticks to basic combinations. He mimics Mayweather's style but doesn't do the same type of mitt work, yet he struggled [and some believe, lost] against PDL who isn't nearly as technically sound and proficient.

Go watch the others. I take it you're from the UK as well, or some place outside of the states, so it's obvious why you're opposed to styles of mitt work that don't always use "1-2-3-4" with all the power in the world behind it.

deejd
Excuse my ignorant but, are you defending the "Reactive Mitts" work similar to the Roger Mayweather styles? I'm a bit confused here..lol! Not that it take much for me to be? lol! Please explain your point more in details..OK Broner / PDL.. What about Wright/Soliman?? Please make related example from that fight in details. I didn't see the other fights, but I saw the Wright/Soliman bout. So if you can explain your point from that I fight I might be able to understand it better since I saw that fight.

[deejd]

make as many responses as you please, you still haven't come close to making a point - all you're doing is making me believe more and more that you don't have one

How about Ali-Foreman? Are you aware of those two fighters and their training styles?

[frosty-g]

It's a simple question, did you watch any of those fights? If you haven't, then I can't discuss this anymore with you and it's more apparent as to why your viewpoint is that way that it is.

it was a simple response that i was after not repeated set of questions then an arrogant comment full of self-importance.
i have seen some of the very narrow selection of fights that are according to you the key to understanding this type of padwork. what happens if i watch every single one of those - do the stars align and i suddenly become in the know?
well sorry but i tend to work more of reasoning and discussion, call me old fashioned but at least i'm unlikely to come across as a pr*ck...