Reactive Mitts with a student (Showing Off)

[T.Horton]

"Training the eyes and Rhythm" are too profound. Taboo here

Dumb it down bro

do you think that you're the only one who understands the game?

if YOU need it dumbed down then say so. don't make it look like it's due to OUR inability to understand.

[TheAuthority]

do you think that you're the only one who understands the game?

if YOU need it dumbed down then say so. don't make it look like it's due to OUR inability to understand.

I think the crux of the "debate" is the following question:

How can practicing with incorrect technique lead to greater benefits that using correct technique, particularly regarding relatively inexperienced boxers?

Barry cannot answer this without admitting he is wrong so he proceeds clutter the forum with irrelevant nonsense to hide is inability to answer the question. He then proceeds to claim that it is those who disagree with his position (which BTW MUST be that practicing with incorrect technique is superior to using correct technique) are the ones who lack the ability to understand.

[deejd]

I think the crux of the "debate" is the following question:

How can practicing with incorrect technique lead to greater benefits that using correct technique, particularly regarding relatively inexperienced boxers?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...7#post12845807

Because every elite fighter has perfect textbook form. I wish Pernell Whitaker wasn't so textbook. It would have been nice if Sugar Ray Leonard or Muhammad Ali brought a different style to the game, but they only used earmuffs and rattled off 1-2 combos.

James Toney and Mayweather just like when people, not boxing trainers, but people, just tap them on the shoulder to get their attention. I guess it's just a coincidence that when guys they fight against throw right hands at them, they roll their shoulder.

Pathetic.

Stop trolling, you're a grown man.

[TheAuthority]

Because every elite fighter has perfect textbook form. I wish Pernell Whitaker wasn't so textbook. It would have been nice if Sugar Ray Leonard or Muhammad Ali brought a different style to the game, but they only used earmuffs and rattled off 1-2 combos.

James Toney and Mayweather just like when people, not boxing trainers, but people, just tap them on the shoulder to get their attention. I guess it's just a coincidence that when guys they fight against throw right hands at them, they roll their shoulder.

Pathetic.

Stop trolling, you're a grown man.

I'm not trolling. The above quote has no relevance to this discussion.

When I say correct form. I'm not referring to a supposed, bio-mechanically perfect way of throwing a particular punch / series of punches or a particular stance etc. I understand we all throw shots / stand differently depending on various individual factors and preferences.

When I say correct form, I am referring to the basic fundamentals that almost everyone would agree on. For example, not standing too square, tucking the chin, using the ground to generate power, hip rotation / drive, rotation of the shoulders, maintaining balance etc.

What the above mentioned All Time Greats do or did has little bearing on this discussion.

[frosty-g]

I understand this.

But why can't you train the eyes and rhythm using correct form and a bit of power? i.e. making it more realistic / reinforcing good habits !!!

For example doing the exact same session move for move, but the boxer uses correct form and a bit of power.

This is my only gripe.

I guarantee you will be unable to give me a reasonable answer.

i see what you're saying and agree.

incorrect technique causes a different rhythm, so i fail to see why incorrect form should be utilised unless you want a rhythm that doesn't equate to one that is usable during a boxing match

[TheAuthority]

i see what you're saying and agree.

incorrect technique causes a different rhythm, so i fail to see why incorrect form should be utilised unless you want a rhythm that doesn't equate to one that is usable during a boxing match

That's a good point mate.

Another major issue I see is that lack of technique / rotation mean you are defending and countering from unrealistic positions too.

[frosty-g]

Barry,

The above answer my questions regarding power, however I have already said in previous posts that it not necessary to to throw with full power at all times.

What about technique?
For me, the main issue with this type of pad work is technique (although I still maintain that on most occasions we should use some power for various reasons).

How can practicing with incorrect technique lead to greater benefits that using correct technique, particularly regarding relatively inexperienced boxers?

I suspect you have a limited understand skill acquisition and of the neuroscience of learning / memory i.e. the physiological changes that take place at and around synapses within neuronal networks as a result of repeated practice.

If you did, you would understand why doing things incorrectly is counter-productive for a novice boxer and not so detrimental to someone who is more experienced (i.e. Floyd Mayweather).

It seems it is you who needs to "step up your game".

For me to explain to you why you are wrong, in a way that you can understand, you will need a basic understanding of the neuroscience of learning and memory.

If you genuinely want educate yourself on this you need to understand what is meant by the following:

Synaptic plasticity, long-term potentiation, long-term depression, Hebbian Theory etc.



I can see you are frustrated with your inability to defend your position with zero evidence, and without a sound logical basis. Hence the personal attacks.

i also agree that an understanding of psychological principles can seriously help the teaching/learning process.

the soviets and cubans incorporated a lot of this into the methodologies. one of the reasons that i decided to take a masters degree in psychology was my boxing coaching apprenticeship in cuba taught me the importance of psychology across all areas of the sport and in life in general.

you can certainly get by without understanding these things but if you can get a good understanding, why not? - if definitely helps, it gives deeper insight into why things work, how they work best, and can iron out a lot of problems in learning, as well as optimise things at a more advanced level.
unless i'm totally missing something and those things are not useful...

[deejd]

I'm not trolling. The above quote has no relevance to this discussion.

When I say correct form. I'm not referring to a supposed, bio-mechanically perfect way of throwing a particular punch / series of punches or a particular stance etc. I understand we all throw shots / stand differently depending on various individual factors and preferences.

When I say correct form, I am referring to the basic fundamentals that almost everyone would agree on. For example, not standing too square, tucking the chin, using the ground to generate power, hip rotation / drive, rotation of the shoulders, maintaining balance etc.

What the above mentioned All Time Greats do or did has little bearing on this discussion.

My post has all the relevance in the world. Those All-Time Greats must have spent countless hours throwing power punch after power punch in the gym while keep both hands held high with the chin tucked at all times, right?

I mean, Sergio Martinez doesn't spend his whole training camp with both hands at his waist, throwing out pity-pat jabs while moving around the ring. He would never do that in actual fight.

And yes, you are trolling. It's quite pathetic.

[frosty-g]

My post has all the relevance in the world. Those All-Time Greats must have spent countless hours throwing power punch after power punch in the gym while keep both hands held high with the chin tucked at all times, right?

I mean, Sergio Martinez doesn't spend his whole training camp with both hands at his waist, throwing out pity-pat jabs while moving around the ring. He would never do that in actual fight.

And yes, you are trolling. It's quite pathetic.

martinez etc DO do things in a very unorthodox way.
but they don't tend to do them in a bull**** way though.
the shots they throw strongly resemble something worthwhile - ie something that they can and will be able to use when the time calls.

[deejd]

martinez etc DO do things in a very unorthodox way.
but they don't tend to do them in a bull**** way though.
the shots they throw strongly resemble something worthwhile - ie something that they can and will be able to use when the time calls.

What did you think of the Wright-Soliman fight?