weight training in boxing

[Spartacus Sully]

Here's a fact...former Heavyweight champ Jack Johnson used to perform one arm chin ups for 6 reps and press-ups with a partner on his back for about 4-5 reps. He also did hanstand press-ups for 5-7 reps. Whats the difference between a low rep handstand press-up and overhead dumbbell press? Nothing...it's all strength training.

thats great so youve found 2 boxers that did low rep high weights...



ohhh and a fyi, this little scrawny guy knocked Jack Johnson out cold in 3 rounds back in 1901.

[Spartacus Sully]

I've just watched your bag videos. Say no more. I'm not one to mock the afflicted, have a good day.

so your not even on topic? troll.

post up your own video if you want to mock mine.

really in the face of facts and science, youve called me an idiot and mocked me how many times in this thread?

you really are nothing but a troll.

any one who can read, can read through this thread and see who knows what they are talking about and who barely has a clue.

[DaveJH]

so your not even on topic? troll.

post up your own video if you want to mock mine.

really in the face of facts and science, youve called me an idiot and mocked me how many times in this thread?

you really are nothing but a troll.

any one who can read, can read through this thread and see who knows what they are talking about and who barely has a clue.

Your 'science' is flawed - it's been proved that 3-5 reps at the right weight enhances power.

You claim that fast twitch fibre development makes you powerful yet slow. How come Olympic sprinters are pretty much all fast-twitch fibres? They most certainly aren't slow.

You make redundant claims that developing your fast twitch fibres will somehow make blocking slow - something that I fail to see. Fast twitch fibres will mean you can complete the movement with more speed.

It's been proven boxing is 70% anaerobic, yet you continue to ignore that and preach the value of developing slow twitch fibres. The fast twitch fibres deal with any exercise with a duration of 0-5 minutes. A round of boxing takes place within this parameters and thus will be predominantly fired by the fast twitch fibres.

Muscles trained correctly will be more capable of speed as well as power. Hypertrophic rep ranges will harm speed and athletic performance. That is why low rep high weight is more desirable as it staves off sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - something which does negatively impact speed.

[Spartacus Sully]

Your 'science' is flawed - it's been proved that 3-5 reps at the right weight enhances power.

You claim that fast twitch fibre development makes you powerful yet slow. How come Olympic sprinters are pretty much all fast-twitch fibres? They most certainly aren't slow.

You make redundant claims that developing your fast twitch fibres will somehow make blocking slow - something that I fail to see. Fast twitch fibres will mean you can complete the movement with more speed.

as ive said
block imaginary punches in the air as fast as you can.

now have some one throw punches at you and block them.

you move slower when you are trying to actually block something.

when you block imaginary punches in the air as fast as you can you arnt preforming a fine motor skill your just moving your arm.

when you block actual punches you need to have timing and accuracy, this makes the motion a fine motor skill and thus incorperates your slow twitch muscles.

when your fast twitch muscles over power your slow twitch muscles you sub consciously slow your self down so you can maintain the same accurecy.

this is how to great a ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscles will make you block slower.


go out and try it, block in the air and then have some one punch at you and block the punches, you will notice yourself much slower then when your just blocking the air. the goal would be to not notice a diffrence, if you dont notice a diffrence then there is no problem, and keep doing what your doing.


a sprinter is just *****g his foot down and pushing off with the other foot, its not comparable to boxing, or the fine motor skills involved in boxing.

prove boxing is 70% anerobic please, citations from science experimental evidence.

as ive proved with several citations that lactate threshold/anerobic threshold is entirely dependant on slow twitch muscles and aerobic capicity as it is your slow twitch msucles and aerobic capicity that breaks down lactate acid allowing you to have a much greater lactate threshold.

i agree that "Muscles trained correctly will be more capable of speed as well as power."



but the use of 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps at 75-95% 1 rp max is not correct.

[DaveJH]

as ive said

make a blocking motion in the air as fast as you can.

now have some one throw punches at you and make the same blocking motion.

you move slower when you are trying to actually block something.

when you make the blocking motion in the air as fast as you can you arnt preforming a fine motor skill your just moving your arm.

when you make the blocking motion to actually block something you need to have timing and accuracy, this makes the motion a fine motor skill and thus incorperates your slow twitch muscles.

when your fast twitch muscles over power your slow twitch muscles you sub consciously slow your self down so you can maintain the same accurecy.

this is how to great a ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscles will make you block slower.


go out and try it, block in the air and then have some one punch at you and block the punches you will notice yourself much slower then when your just blocking the air.


a sprinter is just *****g his foot down and pushing off with the other foot, its not comparable to boxing, or the fine motor skills involved in boxing.

prove boxing is 70% anerobic please, citations from science experimental evidence.

i agree that "Muscles trained correctly will be more capable of speed as well as power."

but heavy weights is not correct.

Can't get on the damn article due to internet filtering but it's mentioned here: http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym21.htm

''Boxing is estimated to be 70-80% anaerobic and 20-30% aerobic''

Before you twist my words, I'm not dis*****g the importance of performing some aerobic exercise when training for boxing, what I am dis*****g is how wrong you are saying that lifting weights in such a fashion as to promote the development of the fast twitch fibres is unnecessary for boxing. That is simply folly. An athlete with a solid level of conditioning will experience no coordination or performance defects from becoming more explosive through strength training, be it with weights or strength-orientated bodyweight exercises. The only risk of their technique and things such as speed, timing, and accuracy suffering is if they neglect sparring and padwork to focus on peripheral issues over technique.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=L...twitch&f=false

Read this. The book clearly states that fast twitch fibres are responsible for fine skills.

I quote: ''Slow twitch muscle fibres remain contracted longer than fast twitch fibres, with the former being involved in the maintenance of posture and the latter in fine and rapid motor functions''

Point proven.

And before you say the book is not written in a sporting context, the principle still remains the same.

Also, could you please tell me where you 'learnt' that heavy weights with low reps is not correct? I'm interested to know, as the works that I've read state the contrary. I also know firsthand that after following such a regime, I felt a better athlete in sparring and certainly felt as though I was hitting harder on the pads.

Also, the nature of the muscle fibres needs to be considered. Slow twitch fibres can stretch further, but with not as much speed. Fast twitch fibres don't stretch as far, but move with much more speed. As such, they are more suited to ballistic contractions such as throwing a punch.

[Spartacus Sully]

Can't get on the damn article due to internet filtering but it's mentioned here: http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym21.htm

''Boxing is estimated to be 70-80% anaerobic and 20-30% aerobic''

Before you twist my words, I'm not dis*****g the importance of performing some aerobic exercise when training for boxing, what I am dis*****g is how wrong you are saying that lifting weights in such a fashion as to promote the development of the fast twitch fibres is unnecessary for boxing. That is simply folly. An athlete with a solid level of conditioning will experience no coordination or performance defects from becoming more explosive through strength training, be it with weights or strength-orientated bodyweight exercises. The only risk of their technique and things such as speed, timing, and accuracy suffering is if they neglect sparring and padwork to focus on peripheral issues over technique.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=L...twitch&f=false

Read this. The book clearly states that fast twitch fibres are responsible for fine skills.

I quote: ''Slow twitch muscle fibres remain contracted longer than fast twitch fibres, with the former being involved in the maintenance of posture and the latter in fine and rapid motor functions''

Point proven.

And before you say the book is not written in a sporting context, the principle still remains the same.

Also, could you please tell me where you 'learnt' that heavy weights with low reps is not correct? I'm interested to know, as the works that I've read state the contrary. I also know firsthand that after following such a regime, I felt a better athlete in sparring and certainly felt as though I was hitting harder on the pads.

Also, the nature of the muscle fibres needs to be considered. Slow twitch fibres can stretch further, but with not as much speed. Fast twitch fibres don't stretch as far, but move with much more speed. As such, they are more suited to ballistic contractions such as throwing a punch.

the ross is a estimate with no provable science to back it up.

the book is a good find ill have to read through it and see if i can locate the source where i had read that slow twitch muscles are responsible for fine motor skills.

it is possible that ive actually been thinking gross motor skills and not fine motor skills as im going off reasearch i did alittle less then 2 years ago. which actually makes a little more sense as fine motor skills is like blinking your eyes and using your fingers while gross motor skills would be things like moving your legs and arms.

[DaveJH]

Fast twitch fibres still fire gross movements such as punches, throws, jumps, it's all dependent on the type of contraction and the type of exercise that is taking place. Slow twitch fibres are capable of immense endurance, hence their use in maintaining posture throughout the day.

There's no doubt a punch is a gross movement, due to the amount of the body being used but it will still be controlled by the fast twitch fibres due to it being a ballistic contraction (maximum force generated at maximum speed). Ergo, training the fast twitch fibres will improve power and speed, and the book I linked proves that if anything, fine motor skills will be aided by this development rather than hindered. Thus, I still believe that low rep training, with explosive eccentric contractions will yield desirable results for boxing and should be considered by every boxer looking to be the best they can be, provided that conditioning and most of all skill training isn't ignored.

[BTF]

It all comes down to your training regimen, and what you are trying to focus on.

Muscle will always help create more power, but muscle won't do it without form.

If you are on a strict 5-day a week training regimen, real heavy lifting is almost out of the question because it will limit your boxing training.

But if you have the time, heavy lifting can be beneficial. It is important that you work in equal amounts of time on plyometrics and moves developing explosion also, because you don't want to just bulk up at the cost of flexibility

[dctopboots01]

thats great so youve found 2 boxers that did low rep high weights...



ohhh and a fyi, this little scrawny guy knocked Jack Johnson out cold in 3 rounds back in 1901.

Are you ****ing serious...go to this thread http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=530239&page=2

You are agreeing here with me and Ross...now you're saying the opposite. You killed yourself here!

[Spartacus Sully]

Are you ****ing serious...go to this thread http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=530239&page=2

You are agreeing here with me and Ross...now you're saying the opposite. You killed yourself here!

can you explain in better detail what you mean by this post?

like where am i agreeing with you, can you provide the quote from your self and from me where we agree?

as well where am i agreeing with ross?

and most importantly where am i saying the opposite of all this?