Y'all musta forgot

[Super_Lightweight]

As for the PM, I never put the onus on Roy for not fighting DM, and that was correctly done on my part. DM could go **** himself. After he saw Roy blast Virgil Hill, having struggled with Virgil mightily himself, DM wanted no part of it.

It's perfectly understandable that Roy didn't want to fight in Germany, and if DM wanted to stay there...fine with me. DM is not remembered as 'the man' from that era, Roy is.

All DM had to do to change popular opinion was fight Roy in the U.S., the big pond of boxing. Instead DM saw Roy destroy Virgil Hill and didn't seem so enthused afterwards.

My problems with Roy's career are about his days before 175.

But like I said, Roy dominated 175 as much or more than anyone else did from 1997-2004. That's enough to be called great.

If you are referring to DM, Mr. Deutsch who loved the comfy confines on his Mutterland, then I don't have much respect for that. Clearly by putting the onus on Roy for the fight not happening is a sign of bias. Clear these things from your head before you come to the table to discuss this issue.

See, there's the perjorative defence mechanism at work.

Did I say it was Roy's fault? No I did not. I also didn't say that it was Roy's fault he never - correct me if I'm wrong - fought a top five contender the entire time he was at SuperMiddle. There's lots of different reasons why things do and don't happen, but to suggest they don't matter because they were beyond the fighter's control is pointless.

I'll give you an example. Big Len has detractors for lots of reasons, but one of the main ones is that he never fought a prime Tyson. Now, I'd have Big Len a lower top ten heavy and all that, and it's not Big Len's fault they didn't fight when Tyson was, if not in his prime, then less shot. But it doesn't matter a **** who's fault it was when it comes to accessing the record, does it?

I've framed the pm.

[Super_Lightweight]

You implied Roy was at fault by claiming he didn't fight the man at 175. As if it was totally his own choosing. You could have input the significant information to go along with your statement if you wanted people to think you weren't putting the onus on Roy.

How many times have we been over the DM fight with Roy haters????
It just gets sad and pathetic after a while.

What gets sad and pathetic? Polarising diverse opinions into infantile categories like "haters" and "nuthuggers"? If you don't like the thread or the discussion, don't read it and don't post in it. Simple.

[Mayweather #1]

I love it when they say Roy didnt want tofight Darius, when Darius was hidding in europe, if roy had gone there they would have pulled another Korea 88 on him

You implied Roy was at fault by claiming he didn't fight the man at 175. As if it was totally his own choosing. You could have input the significant information to go along with your statement if you wanted people to think you weren't putting the onus on Roy.

Sorry, sometimes because I know what I'm thinking I forget to specify all the parameters cos I assume people will know what I'm saying without reading into what I say.

I still maintain that you can't say a man is a great unless he's proved that greatness against superior opposition. Otherwise we might as well just say Amir Khan is P4P top ten material right now... because he looks **** hot when he's fighting some little guy from the local car warehouse.

I love it when they say Roy didnt want tofight Darius, when Darius was hidding in europe, if roy had gone there they would have pulled another Korea 88 on him

I love it when insular parochial views are pulled... wasn't Roy hiding in America? If Darius had gone there maybe they'd pull another De La Hoya-Sturm on him?

[Richard Head]

dude not for nothing you werent hit by that punch so you dont know. there are spots on your head that can knock you ****** from a soft punch. i can slap you hard in the temple and you will be dazed. he took alot of hard shots in that fight. so that was just the iceing on the cake punch. but come on wlad got KOed by lame-on brewster for christ sake. give me a break the worst HW champ next to john ruiz.

He got TKOed by the champ, Glen Johnson is a BUM Journymen nothing more and nothing less. Like I said. Jones got KTFO while WK got TKO by exhaustion....hmmmmm. I fail to see your point. BTW a slap will not daze you even on the temple

[GEOFFHAYES]

When Jones was on Eurosport in '92, I was looking forward to a rollercoaster ride where he'd take on the likes of Nigel Benn, Julian Jackson, Lamar Parks, Michael Nunn and so on and, win or lose, put on breathtaking fights. He had that potential. He was an animal back then, letting fly with big hooks from the off, letting out all his frustrations at his daddy holding him back for so many years (he could of won the world junior-middle title within five pro fights).

Instead, he seemed to model himself on Chris Eubank.

[Mayweather #1]

I love it when insular parochial views are pulled... wasn't Roy hiding in America? If Darius had gone there maybe they'd pull another De La Hoya-Sturm on him?

we all know judgin in america sucks but Europe is the motherland of home town decitions.