Bert Sugar's Top 100 Fighters Of All Time...

[Silence]

willie pep 15? He’s easily top 10 and most have him top 5

One division merchant and lost to Saddler 3x. Actually, Saddler can be higher p4p fighter. He had also SFW adventure which is quite good.

[BodyBagz]

Ali @ 7
Duran @ 8

If the Sun is #1ATG
Ali is the Earth
Duran would be beyond Pluto.

How many fights from the Gans and Langford era even exists ?
I hope people don't take lists seriously.

[Silence]

Ali @ 7
Duran @ 8

If the Sun is #1ATG
Ali is the Earth
Duran would be beyond Pluto.

How many fights from the Gans and Langford era even exists ?
I hope people don't take lists seriously.

What is your top 10?

[BodyBagz]

What is your top 10?

TL/WR (?)

I don't believe in ''All Time'' great lists since I haven't seen a bunch of MFers and I hate the hype historians give those ''before tv was invented'' MFers.
Those fighting bartenders MFers. ATG lists made by historians should be the last lists to look at. Their reference points are limited. In 100 years, our lists will be antiquated as well.

The best I've seen, and who's resume isn't filled with names that USED to mean something. This isn't a head to head/best of or most talented and would have beaten every ass list. Fighting the ''best'' is nice, winning most of those fights is the key. If a guy fights 10 ''great'' fighters and only wins 2....

Holy has a great resume but he's also lost a bunch of fights. And let's be ''real''...chances he was roided to the gills was pretty good.
Guys like RJJ, Pac, to some extent SRL either don't have enough fights (SRL) or too many soft touches (Roy Pac)
My gripe with Pac is his has too many issues going on with his best wins and stretches in his resume where it's very thin.
Same can be said about RJJ. They both had all the talent in the world (more so RJJ) but not enough quality opponents for the amount of fights they had.

I don't rank compilers high.
I give guys with 100+ wins the evil eye

SRL has half the amount of fights most guys on these lists have total. Whereas Salvator Sanchez had a ton of fights, he died so young. Obviously a bunch of those wins were vs bums. He was 23 with 40+ fights . Give him a break
Can a guy like Holmes be punished because he didn't have the level of opponents to test him ?
IMHO, he did the tools to beat every prime HW. Even prime Ali.
And how can we tell what a legit quality opponent is ?

Strictly strength of resume

(I'd leaving off SRR because he's too much of a cliche)

All of that said, I never considered appointing numbers to guys. I just feel some guys are successful due to resume issues.

The 50 Greatest Boxers of the ''Modern'' Era

https://definitivedose.com/greatest-...he-modern-era/

(A bunch of guys are way too high or don't belong)

[Roadblock]

who is bert sugar?

A storyteller that was always feathering the romantics of boxing, is the reason why his list is stuck in his past glory days, pre 1940 guys would have a very hard time surviving guys from the 70s to now, the sport evolved. The two Jacks 9-10 all-time on his list would get destroyed in the modern era.

[Silence]

TL/WR (?)

I don't believe in ''All Time'' great lists since I haven't seen a bunch of MFers and I hate the hype historians give those ''before tv was invented'' MFers.
Those fighting bartenders MFers. ATG lists made by historians should be the last lists to look at. Their reference points are limited. In 100 years, our lists will be antiquated as well.

The best I've seen, and who's resume isn't filled with names that USED to mean something. This isn't a head to head/best of or most talented and would have beaten every ass list. Fighting the ''best'' is nice, winning most of those fights is the key. If a guy fights 10 ''great'' fighters and only wins 2....

Holy has a great resume but he's also lost a bunch of fights. And let's be ''real''...chances he was roided to the gills was pretty good.
Guys like RJJ, Pac, to some extent SRL either don't have enough fights (SRL) or too many soft touches (Roy Pac)
My gripe with Pac is his has too many issues going on with his best wins and stretches in his resume where it's very thin.
Same can be said about RJJ. They both had all the talent in the world (more so RJJ) but not enough quality opponents for the amount of fights they had.

I don't rank compilers high.
I give guys with 100+ wins the evil eye

SRL has half the amount of fights most guys on these lists have total. Whereas Salvator Sanchez had a ton of fights, he died so young. Obviously a bunch of those wins were vs bums. He was 23 with 40+ fights . Give him a break
Can a guy like Holmes be punished because he didn't have the level of opponents to test him ?
IMHO, he did the tools to beat every prime HW. Even prime Ali.
And how can we tell what a legit quality opponent is ?

Strictly strength of resume

(I'd leaving off SRR because he's too much of a cliche)

All of that said, I never considered appointing numbers to guys. I just feel some guys are successful due to resume issues.

The 50 Greatest Boxers of the ''Modern'' Era

https://definitivedose.com/greatest-...he-modern-era/

(A bunch of guys are way too high or don't belong)

I think true all time greats should be combination of resume, H2H ability and title defenses. The problem is most of ATGs lack of some of these three criterias. Some have resume and ability but lack of defenses. Some have defense and ability but lack of resume quality. Some have resume and defense but lack of high level talent. If you have all of them, you could be Sugar Ray Robinson.

[BodyBagz]

I think true all time greats should be combination of resume, H2H ability and title defenses. The problem is most of ATGs lack of some of these three criterias. Some have resume and ability but lack of defenses. Some have defense and ability but lack of resume quality. Some have resume and defense but lack of high level talent. If you have all of them, you could be Sugar Ray Robinson.

Once a guy with clout starts waxing poetically about a guy/era, the sheeple will fall in line.

The number system can never be accurate.
H2H is a good measure but so many guys can never get the opportunity to check that box (outside of fantasy fights).
HWs are stuck in that 1 div...testing themselves vs top guys in other divs is pretty much out of the question.
Prime guys from different eras are in the same boat.

I refer to Mike Tyson when it comes to guys with ''talent''.
Full on beast mode vs a certain level of opponent.
Not so special when they step up.

GGG, how many defenses did he have in his run ?
Joe Louis had a club dubbed Bum Of The Month.....

In the end, if a person is going to make a list, it should rely heavily on the fantasy fight outcomes

[Ropss]

Once a guy with clout starts waxing poetically about a guy/era, the sheeple will fall in line.

The number system can never be accurate.
H2H is a good measure but so many guys can never get the opportunity to check that box (outside of fantasy fights).
HWs are stuck in that 1 div...testing themselves vs top guys in other divs is pretty much out of the question.
Prime guys from different eras are in the same boat.

I refer to Mike Tyson when it comes to guys with ''talent''.
Full on beast mode vs a certain level of opponent.
Not so special when they step up.

GGG, how many defenses did he have in his run ?
Joe Louis had a club dubbed Bum Of The Month.....

In the end, if a person is going to make a list, it should rely heavily on the fantasy fight outcomes

Which opponents step up when fury beat **** of all or Tyson in his prime who same whoops all top contenders reigning champions made them like bums reason you say that because you are biased and hate on somebody Shavers, Norton,Grant,Frazier are all World beaters but Wilder,Holmes,Klitscko,Spinks are bums

[hugh grant]

Why Bert die so suddenly? We need his updated top 100!

[djtmal]

Why Bert die so suddenly? We need his updated top 100!

No surprise all the Floyd Boys are discrediting him because Floyd is nowhere to be found on his list