Unpopular Opinion: Canelo beats Prime Hagler

[pesticid]

People are acting like hes James Toney or something. Hes never had a standout performance against a standout opponent.

He fought GGG twice, while GGG was already starting to slide, and most people think he lost both times.

He fought Lara, which I give him huge props for taking that fight, but he looked silly, and the justification for giving him that fight is extremely dubious.

He fought Floyd, and literally lost every round on any reasonable scorecard.

I can't think of anyone else reasonably close to their prime whom he has beaten who was actually skilled.

He had an absolute stinker vs Danny Jacobs.

The point is, these fights we have been getting from him are a joke. We should have gotten a 3rd GGG fight, but Canelo doesn't want that kind of work anymore.

If he wants to have a legit fight, give the guy more than 3 1/2 weeks to train.

His is bringing in guys who are just there for a pay day. Chavez, both Smiths, Kovalev... things that should be impressive ( not chavez ) but aren't because of the circumstances and the timing.

If he wont even fight a 39 year old GGG which would clearly be his biggest payday, I don't know what else to say about him.

He use to have balls.

Dude, I love me some James Toney but Toney got hit more times against Dave Tiberri than Canelo's been hit in his entire career. That's why James slurring and all messed up cause he got messed up in too many fights.

[!! Shawn]

He’s just as good or better, he is in the mix with all the greats

Something tells me you have never seen a single Tommy Hearns fight.

Zero fighters ever came close on the scorecards against Tommy Hearns in his prime.

He either outboxed you, or you got knocked out.

Once again... Canelo is fighting slow fighters so his head movement looks impressive. Anyone with timing or speed, has made it look less impressive.

Tommy Hearns had both speed and timing, as well as height, reach, and CRUSHING power, and a fast accurate jab that he could use on the move. If Canelo clipped him, maybe he could get him out of there, but more likely he would do what he did against Leonard, and get his stick and move on. I think Canelo's fight against Lara definitely showed that he would have been unable to chase down Hearns in stick and move mode.... Cement feet against Thomas Hearns is asking for a serious beating, no matter how good your head movement is. Ask Benitez.

The ONLY fighters ever to beat him, were hard headed guys who could take a punch and were willing to slug it out with him. Canelo is neither willing to go to war with him, nor does he have the feet to outbox him.

Canelo is a talented guy, but he's really picking through old dudes, and weak divisions with conditions attached.

Im sure there are some atg fighters he could be competitive with, but we can peg his level at the same level as an aging GGG.

[!! Shawn]

Dude, I love me some James Toney but Toney got hit more times against Dave Tiberri than Canelo's been hit in his entire career. That's why James slurring and all messed up cause he got messed up in too many fights.

James Toney also loved gym wars, and coming into fights in a horrible horrible shape.

His defense was better than Canelos, but he was also willing to mix it up, and was a much more fluid combination puncher.

Once again... Canelo's defense has looked good against guys with slow hands, or that lacked timing or were only willing to throw a shot at a time.

He does have excellent head movement, don't get me wrong, but his feet would be a liability in any discussion about him fighting true ATG fighters. Maybe he could pull one over on James Toney, as Toney didn't like to move his feet much either, but against some of the great fighters that did move their feet, its a big nope.

We have seen how Canelo does against guys with movement, and its not well.

Canelo is fight a very specific kind of fighter these days. Guys that go to the ropes, or guys that slowly plod forward at him. He avoids anyone that sticks and moves like Lara did, or Floyd.

So historical matchups against guys with legendary feet, like Roy Jones, or Tommy Hearns, or a Marvin Hagler, are just extremely difficult matchups for him.

One of the reasons GGG was such a hard fight for him, is because GGG has great footwork, and Canelo still needs to plant his feet to throw.

Can anyone actually see him beating a Bernard Hopkins?

[kidbazooka]

Canelo is waaaaay too slick and strong for Hagler

[Armchairhero]

The ONLY fighters ever to beat him, were hard headed guys who could take a punch and were willing to slug it out with him. Canelo is neither willing to go to war with him, nor does he have the feet to outbox him.

.

So Canello isn’t hard headed and can’t take a punch?
In the GGG fights he was willing to trade..
It’s my opinion as someone else stated, only clear winner is RJJ, every other past & present has problems. If you can’t see that you’ve have rose tinted spectacles regarding older fighters.

[GrandpaBernard]

Sadly Hagler is the type of fighter they’d rob vs Alvarez

[SN!PER]

Hagler would brutalize anyone today including the light heavyweights and it would be scary to watch.

[!! Shawn]

So Canello isn’t hard headed and can’t take a punch?
In the GGG fights he was willing to trade..
It’s my opinion as someone else stated, only clear winner is RJJ, every other past & present has problems. If you can’t see that you’ve have rose tinted spectacles regarding older fighters.

Canelo can take a punch, but hes not willing to sit there and trade. He likes to be slick and wait for chances to punch. Thats why he does terrible against guys that move. By the time he sets his feet and has his opportunity, they are gone, and he has to start over again.

We are talking about comparing him to ATG fighters, who had extremely convincing wins over fellow ATG fighters. When Canelo lost every single round to Floyd, in many peoples opinions lost both fights to GGG, and barely squeaked by Lara.

He has not put on an ATG performance, against another great fighter.

Much less against another ATG fighter in their prime.

Hagler has, Toney has, Hopkins has. Floyd has, Hearns has, Leonard Has, Jones has.

Nobody took Jones beating John Ruiz seriously. But Canelo is doing the same thing, but doing it under more dubious circumstances. That doesn't make him greater, that makes him a circus performer. He might as well start fighting youtubers if hes going to be putting in a full camp, while giving the other guy 3 1/2 weeks.

Once again, Canelo is very Talented, and can be fun to watch, when he is in actual fights like against GGG. But he seems content to just fight stinkers these days.

[Tarl of Bristol]

Hagler was an underrated boxer and in regard to chin, had one of the best the middleweight division has ever seen. The only time he was off his feet was a fluke flash knockdown by Juan Roldan.

Lots of folks always refer to his last three fights; Hearns, Mugabi and Leonard. What a lot of those folks don’t realize is that all three of those fights came past his prime. The fight with Hearns was incredible and Marvin was able to withstand what Hearns threw at him so he’d be able to withstand whatever Canelo has. Marvin was 34-35 for that fight and took lot of punishment and his next fight was against John Mugabi and John was a destroyer. 26-0 with all KO wins. By this time Hagler had slowed down and it was a toe to toe slugfest for 11 rounds with Marvin winning the fight by TKO. Tht was two straight slugfest that Ray decided to come back and fight Marvin. By the time they got in the ring Ray was 30 and Marvin was 37. Due to finally getting the huge payday Marvin people ceded to Ray demands and was first championship fight at 12 rounds in stead of 15, biggest ring, bigger gloves, loosened ropes so Ray could lean back, Ray trained for a year straight for this fight, it’s interesting to hear Ray talk about all the things that went into that fight. Ray also talks about how he waited till he saw how far Hagler had slipped when watching the Mugabi fight that he finally decided to fight him. Nonetheless, it was a close fight. Ray won a split decision with a good deal of people thinking that Marvin should’ve won. This was a way past his prime Hagler too.

Those are the fights so many look at and bring up when talking about Marvin and they fail to bring up the years and years where he crushed opponents before he got his shot and how he was avoided for so long or how he got robbed when he beat up Autofermo with that “draw” decision first time he fought for the belt or how he devoured Alan Minter to take the title the second chance he got. They fail to bring up the classic against a revitalized Duran where the fight was close after 10 and Hagler knowing this turned it way up and left no doubt over the last five rounds to solidify that victory. People forget of how he outboxed and crushed Mustangs Hamsho twice and the others during his dominating championship reign.

Marvin didn’t catch one break and if given the chance to fight a “groomed” fighter like Canelo Alvarez, Marvin wouldn’t let that go. Marvin would’ve been salivating and would’ve smothered Canelo and Canelo wouldn’t have been able to hang with Marvin Hagler.

Not an insult to Canelo but if we’re talking g about a 28-30 year old Marvin Hagler in his prime fighting Canelo in his prime then it’s a terrible matchup for Canelo.

[kidbazooka]

Hagler would brutalize anyone today including the light heavyweights and it would be scary to watch.

Hagler was also one dimension and smalll for a mw